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Type 2 Completly confused, low card?, plant based?, limit fruit?, eat lots if fruit?

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sunilg

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Hi I was diagnosed a few weeks a go with Type 2, I am health weight and thought I was eating a reasonably health diet ( looking back maybe too many treats). I am trying to decide the best way to futher improve my diet but there seems to be so many different and complelly opposite views, Low Card ?, Plant based ? Eat fruit ? Do not eat Fruit? Eating the right type of cards?

The articles and explainations on the plant based approach seems to be more sensible and fits better with my natual diet but would like to know what others think. In particular I would be interested in peoples view on eating fruit as I love eating fruit.

Thanks
Sunil
 
Welcome to the forums @sunilg and I appreciate your confusion about the minefield that appears to be the conflicting dietary advice for T2s.

Most of the folk here do the low carb approach, though some do use other diets.
My suggestion would be to get a blood testing meter and see what works for your body. (Test before meals and 2 hours after, if the rise is more than 2mmol/L you may want to reconsider the make up of that meal). Your meter will tell you whether a particular diet is working.

I love eating fruit too but as a slightly insulin resistant T1 I find I need a lot of insulin for it. Generally berries are lower in carbs than fruit like apples and pears and bananas.

Here is my favourite link for low carb should you want to go that route.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog/jokalsbeek.401801/

Do you know what your hba1c was at diagnosis?

And once again, welcome.
 
Well, you are on a low carb forum so most of the people low carb here. I am a vegan and a type 1 and eat what I want, but my husband is a vegetarian and is/was a type 2. He was not going to low carb and he still loves some of his snacks. He tests his blood sugars constantly to know what they are doing. He even wore a Libre for a few weeks to give him a better idea of what his sugars were doing. The biggest help to him was to learn portion control of things that spike his blood sugars and to only eat certain things when his sugars are in normal ranges. But also to use exercise as a way to help keep his numbers down. So he loves a bowl of spaghetti, but he won't eat spaghetti unless he is in normal range and he either goes swimming or takes a long walk before or after he eats it. The same thing with certain fruit, blueberries are safe for him, and apples and cherry tomatoes which are his favorites don't seem to cause any issues now. And alternative meat proteins, seitan, edaname and tofu have become a popular snack for night nowadays. His A1c has stayed in the 43-46 range now for years and he is happy with that, so it works for him. You will have to figure out what works for you and what you are happy with doing.
 
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Hi and welcome to the forums. First point is that what suits one person won't suit another, so you have to find your own path. Having a meter and testing your blood sugar will tell you what the impact of food is on your system, and you can use this knowledge to reduce your blood glucose quickly.

Anyone whose blood glucose has reached the level (48 on an HbA1c test) needed these days for a formal diagnosis will (by definition) have a problem with processing carbohydrate. For me, I cut out almost all carbohydrate and I aim for the region of 20g a day. This is the carb equivalent of one apple. This lifestyle works for me and has put my T2 into remission, removing almost all of my symptoms.

I have no experience of a plant-based diet, but you'll find people on here who do. My diet is mainly protein (from meat) fat (cheese and cream etc) and green veg. I don't eat fruit apart from a few berries (strawberries/blackberries/raspberries) maybe once a week. Fruit, especially tropical fruit, is high in fructose, a sugar. Not for me.

Best of luck.
 
sunilg said:
The articles and explainations on the plant based approach seems to be more sensible and fits better with my natual diet but would like to know what others think.
Click to expand...

There seems to be a bit of a problem with your statement here in that your "natural diet" has succeeded in getting you to where you are today.

Plant based for T2 doesn't have a great success rate whereas low carb has a fairly long established track record from here and in various studies. In your shoes I'd go down that route ...

Well you did ask for thoughts!
 
A 'healthy diet' and a 'healthy diet for diabetics' is not the same. I had a healthy diet for decades (being a bit of a nutrition geek) but it didn't stop me developing diabetes, because diabetes is essentially a systems failure. It isn't anyone's fault - it happens to some of us. Then we have to re-jig our diet to suit the body we have now, not the one we had before, or one that someone else has. You have had some great advice, especially the important "we are all different". What some of us can manage to keep in our diet without spiking our bloods, others can't. Diabetes is a bump in the road, but we are still travelling.

Stick around, ask questions. We are a friendly bunch here.
 
Best advice here is to get the meter then do some test days.
Not all fruits are equal with regards to sugar content so see if you can spot what happens.
Think about blunting the impact of very sweet fruits with full fat yoghurt for example or by eating it after a meal rather than as a snack.
Fortunately most people can eat the berries around at this time of the year so enjoy the season.
And remember the wise words that what got you to be diabetic in the first place is not going to take you into remission!
 
The main thing ref diet to understand is that carbs are our problem as they are all converted to glucose in the stomach; and I mean all. High fiber carbs may be converted more slowly but they still become glucose (apart from the fibre itself). Avoid tropical fruit as the sugar content is high. A plant based diet is not relevant to diabetes other than it can be high fibre which is always good. Have a good intake of proteins and fats in place of the carbs.
 
Hi,
I am fairly new to this lark as well.
I’ve been sifting through the diet minefield.
The other respondents have far more experience than me, but I have found a few Podcasts that have helped me massively.
If you have the time and inclination have a listen to any or all of these. They are fascinating.
The Food Medic.
The Doctors Kitchen.
Zoe, Science and Nutrition.
Dr Rangan Charegee.
You’ll need to pick out the ones that are relavent, but they are all interesting.
Good luck.
Cheers Nick
 
"We" tend to make definitions fit what suits us. I measure what works based on what I am ingesting does to my organs and metabolic health as the priority. Then I take into account sensory aspects such as taste, smell and satiety.

I do not agree that plant based doctrine is more sensible for Type 2 diabetics, by definition "we" do not tolerate carbohydrates, so I don't see the sense in having a higher carbohydrate diet. There are many more reasons why I would say a meat based approach is superior to plants, but that is another discussion.

Ultimately you will need to decide how hard you want to work to either have good control or remission. If you are medication free, the less carbs you put in, the less you have to take care of.
 
@sunilg there are several things to consider, and as others have said there’s no one size fits all.

My personal preference - based on successfully putting my type 2 into remission and maintaining the way of eating for 5+ years is to choose something that both reduces your blood sugars far enough to achieve ‘normal’ numbers and which you enjoy eating.

For me that is a high protein, pretty high fat way of eating that is largely animal based. I find greatest satiety in fatty cuts of ruminant meats and choose to eat once or twice a day.

When I first joined this site I looked at a few things and when unsure looked not just at what I might have wanted to be true/fitted with my beliefs, but at the ‘credentials’ of those posting advice. I was far more likely to try something suggested if the person suggesting it was successfully using it themselves than if it was based on a theory they hadn’t yet managed to make work.

It can be a minefield navigating the various points of view, but in essence is a simple equation - less carbs/sugar in = less likelihood of raised blood glucose.
 
I have been reading and considering all points of view around a suitable diet for Type 2 diabetics since diagnosis 8 years ago. One size certainly does not fit all but research and personal experience would seem to indicate two approaches generally. One approach is low carbohydrate, medium protein (sourced depending on preference, availability, religion, ethics etc) and higher healthy fats for satiety but no energy restriction. The other approach is mostly plant based, can include some high carbohydrate goods but relies on continual energy restriction so that the glucose and fructose generated in this diet are rapidly metabolized and have less of an effect on the glycation of haemoglobin and all the other proteins in the body. I would, however, urge those who are vociferous in advocating a particular approach to at least have personal experience of its success. Do as I do not do as I say!
To sunilg and nicksellick. Welcome to the forum. There is some sensible advice above from other forum users and it will take time to come up with a strategy that helps you. Good luck with getting this sorted. It is doable!
 
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I do think that the real food advocates in the low carb world agree on an awful lot of what a real food vegetarian advocate would say. Neither of these groups advocate for sugar or processed foods and just taking that very approach would take a lot of newly diagnosed diabetics into remission! As well as vastly improving their general health. That's always a first step. After that it comes down to what we believe caused the problem in the first place and how durable your chosen food solution fits in with your own personal preferences.
You have supplied case studies but I am linking to evidence from a Real Food charity:
https://phcuk.org/evidence/rcts/
Virta Health is based on a 20g cho daily but still beat the 800kcal diet. I consider both to be 'prescription strength' though and not always necessary for most type 2s.

(mod edit to take out quote of deleted post)
 
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I had 45 years of telling HCPs that high carb - even 'healthy' carbs - made me feel unwell - and since then I have eaten low carb foods, 10% carbs is my limit except for chocolate, but I eat very little of the 95% cocoa bars I buy.
From my own experience, eating low carb is my normal.
Many of my family either report the same or they are huge around the middle.
 
The amount of carbs one can handle without introducing insulin resistance is proportional to the amount of skeletal muscle mass. (At a normal body weight)

I believe it’s possible to thrive on a plant based diet, but certainly not easy. The goal is to reverse what got you here, either by building up the machinery to burn carbs, or don’t eat carbs. A plant based diet is optimal for neither. Can it be done? Sure, but it’s going to require serious dedication.
 
It's not that hard if that is how you choose to eat. No harder than giving up bread and pasta for a low carber. My husband is a vegetarian and close to being a vegan as everything I cook is vegan. But he was always a junk food eater since he was young. His control came by learning not to grab the bag of cookies or chips. He learned portion control of things that aren't the best for you, he learned he needed to fill up with veggies with meals, he learned that regular exercise allows him more flexibility in what he eats. And he learned junk food needs to be controlled by how much and how often you eat it. He doesn't go hungry, he's earned to fill up on healthier things. That works for him, but might not for someone else.
 

Wonderful, care to share the protein sources? A complete and bioavailable amino acid profile is the first thing I consider when looking at diet. Eggs and dairy are awesome sources, but not plant based.
 
@LaoDan I have been a vegetarian for 54 years and a vegan now for 37 years. I use mostly tofu, seitan, tempeh, beans, nuts. Protein is in most foods you eat and is not a problem. There really wasn't meat analogs, or at least very much so I was not used to eating them. But we do use more of the meat analogs now with all the choices available, my husband has always liked them. I chose to be a vegetarian when I was 11, so I don't really remember what meat even tastes like. I am not on any other meds other than insulin. My husband does use Metformin, but other than that he is not on any other meds.
 
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I am confused. I know a vegetarian with diabetes who eats a low carb diet so why the anti-vegetarian rhetoric.
Cheese, eggs, tofu, cream, nuts, … are all low carb and vegetarian so I don’t understand the comments about not being able to have a diabetically (sorry for the made up word) healthy vegetarian diet.
 
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