1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Type 2 Diabetes - It is NOT your fault!

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by ianf0ster, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    103
    There have been many newly diagnosed T2's who say they feel guilty and ashamed.
    I don't feel that way and neither should they. We have all been told to eat the wrong things, and that those are even 'healthy, for decades!

    T2D is all about diet - what the person has eaten in the past and going forward, what they eat after diagnosis.

    The vast majority of Type 2's have been told the following lies:
    1. That being Overweight or Obese leads to T2D - it doe not (at least not necessarily)! In fact several researchers claim that the causality is actually the other way around i.e. that having T2D leads to being Overweight or Obese !

    2. That Type 2 Diabetes is caused by excess intake of 'Sugar' (which is taken to mean added table sugar). In fact T2D is caused by either increased Insulin Resistance or decreased Insulin Sensitivity, or both.

    OK so what causes those 2 conditions? - They are both caused by prolonged high levels of stored body fat, especially around the Liver and pancreas i.e. visceral fat. Many Type 2 diabetics like me are Thin Outside, Fat Inside (TOFI's).

    What causes stored body fat? - Insulin.

    And what causes high Insulin? - That is caused by high Blood Glucose.

    So what causes high Blood Glucose? - Well that is caused by high dietary starches and sugars - Carbohydrates. Pretty much all Carbs are very quickly broken down into glucose by digestion. A typical breakfast (Cereal with milk, Fruit Juice and Toast) even with no added sugar contains over 21 teaspoons of sugar when digested!

    Now this needs a little more explanation:
    The job of Insulin is to enable the body to store away any temporary excess in the starches and sugars we eat in the form of body fat so that it can be used in the lean times like Winter used to be before the availability of all kinds of foods all year round. As well as to enable muscles cells to 'run on it'.
    A side-effect of Insulin storing away Glucose is that it effectively prevents the body from using up its store of energy previously build up in the form of body fat. You can't outrun a poor diet.

    So if you eat just slightly more carbs than you need, your raised Insulin levels will ensure that you slowly gain body fat and that you can't 'burn it off' through exercise! -You can't do this because of the high Insulin.
    This means that the 'Eatwell plate', the '5 a Day' and the 'eat healthy wholegrains' advice is completely wrong for Type 2 Diabetics and indeed are probably the cause of them becoming T2D in the first place! - No wonder there is suddenly so much Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes in the western populations.

    So don't be ashamed or feel guilty - instead feel angry about the terrible advice being officially given to us since the late 1970's ! Advice for which there was no scientific back then, and which there is much disproving research now.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    3,194
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Good post. Someone said in a Podcast the other day (I think it was Ken Berry) - "It's not your fault, but it is your problem" and "getting type 2 diabetes just means you ran out of luck and couldn't get any fatter". The latter is even true of TOFI (of which I was one), as without the protection of subcutaneous fat, we actually get diabetes quicker than those who can become obese and safely store the fat somewhere other than their liver.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  3. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,582
    Likes Received:
    6,971
    Trophy Points:
    278
    One question that dogs even the boffins. What came first, the hyperinsulinaemia or the Insulin Resistance? Once that question is definitively answered we can speak of cause. Fault or blaming oneself just doesn't come into the equation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Well said!
    I think it could be by design, this wrong information and bad advice that is still constantly being churned out.

    One would think that with the massive amount of information on the World Wide Web thingamebob, written by normal people who have experienced what most of us here come to understand, the dissenters would have decreased and the truth would be more accepted by the world's media... and, and, well shouted from the roof tops!

    NOPE: That is our job... You, me, others who have yet to turn their life around, once they stop following the 'bad advice' still being given by unaware doctors and health professions who teach what they have taught, nothing will change.

    Perhaps I'm wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

    Messages:
    10,948
    Likes Received:
    6,769
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Hi. A good post and absolutely right, but as Jim says, it may not be your fault thru high carb food being marketed to us but a T2 can normally help themselves by seriously reducing those carbs and generally ignoring branded diet clubs and NHS dated diet advice e.g. the (in)famous Eatwell Plate. Also it seems most nutritionists haven't a clue either, sadly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    3,194
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Jason Fung often says that there really is no such thing as insulin resistance in the classical sense, and that it's in fact just hyperinsulinemia. Hyperinsulinemia caused by cells no longer accepting glucose because they are already stuffed with it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,582
    Likes Received:
    6,971
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Interesting idea. Women are of course IR during pregnancy and I would entertain the idea that it would be normal to have a measure of IR in the lead up to winter famine. That winter never comes these days is where the 'glitch' kicks in (possibly).
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    3,194
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Yeah it certainly appears to be multifaceted. Particularly in females. There’s little doubt that we evolved to become insulin resistant in autumn in order to prepare us for winter. It’s thought that this is why fructose causes leptin resistance and liver fat simultaneously - so that we continue eating fruit while it’s still available. In turn causing insulin resistance that assists us to become fat so that we can store the energy ready for a winter of food scarcity. Which as you correctly point out, now never arrives in the land of plenty.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    3,194
    Trophy Points:
    198
    These folk are a major part of the problem, since it’s their job to unwittingly propagate the spread of disastrous dietary advice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Good post, I'm a TOFI also... I wonder how many of us are on this forum?
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,582
    Likes Received:
    6,971
    Trophy Points:
    278
    If membership reflects the generality of T2 then it follows(?) that a figure of around 20% of those members here with T2 are TOFI.
    I would posit that this figure would be very much higher in the undiagnosed T2s and as long as a person's appearance is the only reason (or the first reason) a GP would consider tests then this figure would only ever rise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes Received:
    3,194
    Trophy Points:
    198
    And in a world where almost everyone believes that only fat people get type 2 diabetes, it's a cataclysmic irony that those who are unable to become obese are actually at a greater immediate risk of developing it. I agree that it stands to reason there are probably a disproportionately large number of apparently slim and healthy people who have undiagnosed metabolic meltdown.

    In addition to all of that, it seems that TOFI have a much harder time fixing themselves after diagnosis. I know in myself that sorting out hyperinsulinemia and returning to non-medicated glucose homeostasis took a very long period of extreme dedication, and I've read similar anecdotal evidence from the accounts of experts such as Cummins et al.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,582
    Likes Received:
    6,971
    Trophy Points:
    278
    I know that my biggest problems were FBGs and too much weight loss. It seems to have taken me 4x as long to reach non D numbers than other members but I must also factor in the inability to take any meaningful exercise which will, I have no doubt, impacted the time scale.
    Just goes to show (again) how every one of us is different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    7,300
    Likes Received:
    4,547
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I wish that I had not used my entire collection of diet sheets to light the barbecue the day after diagnosis before totting up the daily intake of carbs recommended by those who should know better. They were for weightloss and lowering cholesterol - they never did either.
    The nasty sneering attitude which accompanied them is the most unforgivable facet of the whole affair - the 'if you only took my advice you'd have no problem' attitude seems standard treatment for the non compliant.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  15. VMK

    VMK · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes, good info. I was TOFI too. Never more than 10 stone. Am now 120 lbs with most recent HbA1c showing BG in normal range after 8 months of low(er) carb, higher fat diet. It’s a daily challenge though....
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    178
    No doubt!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    1,527
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I don't know if "fault" or "blame" is appropriate but I was certainly instrumental in my becoming diabetic. I was eating the wrong foods, not because anyone told me to, I had never heard of the Eatwell plate, but because I Iiked them. If anyone is eating cakes, biscuits, deserts, chocolate, having a lot of takeaways and drinking a lot of beer I don't think they are doing it on medical advice. My diet might not have caused my Type 2 but it certainly contributed because when I changed it, I went back to non diabetic numbers. So it might not be your fault, but blaming somebody else rather than doing something about it, would be.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,303
    Likes Received:
    1,744
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I was eating all the 'right' foods, but far too many carbs, at the insistence of the GP's, to "give me energy" for my then undiagnosed ME.

    I dont consider becoming type 2 is my fault, but addressing dietary issues since diagnoses of type 2 I consider to be my responsibility. Progression may happen anyway, but its up to me to do my best to control what I can.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Hi Mr Pot,
    You might not have heard about the 'Eatwell' plate, but surely you would have heard of '5 a Day', unless you were diagnosed a very long time ago. Also anybody trying to lose weight and going to their GP for help would be advised to keep eating wholegrains etc and fresh fruit and vegetables rather than fatty foods.
    So with the emphasis on grains and fruit, is it any wonder that the only way that worked (and usually only short term) was a crash diet (which lowers the metabolic rate and thus defeats itself in the longer term because it makes it easier to gain even more weight that at the start!
     
  20. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    1,527
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Are you suggesting that the "5 a Day" campaign led to obesity and diabetes? Only about 25% of adults in England actually eat 5 a day and I suspect they are less likely to be the ones eating the cakes, biscuits, deserts, chocolate, having a lot of takeaways and drinking a lot of beer that I mentioned. NHS dietary advice, at least in the booklet that accompanied my DESMOND course, also mentions serving size which is often forgotten. They might suggest wholegrains, fresh fruit and vegetables but they don't say to eat vast portions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook