What Regime Did You Use To Achieve Remission? (excl. Lchf And Nd)

[zand]

I occasionally see posters saying that this forum is very biased towards LCHF. I don't believe it is, I think LCHF has helped so many people that it just looks that way. The ND is quite popular here too and there are already several threads about it. I know some here have had success with it. That's why I would like answers only from non LCHF and non ND successes please. These two diets are the only two that have helped me at all and as I have had no success with anything else I personally can't really recommend anything else. So those of you who are champing at the bit to say what worked for you please do so on this thread. Please, no arguments about what is better, just straightforward personal experiences. I am sure there must be other methods out there? If you have had success at controlling T2 with anything other than LCHF and ND here's your chance to have your say. I have started the thread just for you.

To clarify by LCHF I mean Low Carb High Fat - low carb being less than 130g of carbs daily (Trudi Deakin's definition), with moderate protein and enough fat to satiate your appetite. Each of us will have our own formula for this. By High Fat I mean using full fat products and eating fat from meat and dairy etc as well as other healthy fats.

By ND I mean Newcastle diet or any other very low cal diet (whether with real food or meal replacements) of around 800 cals daily ( or less) for around 8 weeks or longer. (The complete ND is in fact longer than the 8 weeks and includes a re-feeding/ maintenance period after the very low cal phase.)

We already know that both of these methods work. We have seen the success stories on this forum. What else is out there?

So I have started this thread to ask what you did to achieve remission. Was it diet? Exercise? Drugs? Did you need insulin from the start? Any combination of the 4?

Edit 1 - Re @DCUKMod 's comments below - To clairify - remission for me means achieving an HbA1c of 47 mmol/mol (6.4%) or lower, so no longer technically T2 at that point. Some of us will have achieved that and then drifted back over the line to 48+, but for the purposes of this thread I would like to hear from anyone who has ever achieved remission. even temporarily via any method other than the two I have mentioned.

Edit 2 - Re @Brunneria 's comments below - The only thing I would say about achieving remission using certain drugs which increase insulin output from the pancreas or using insulin itself is that one has to be careful whilst making judgements on how good the regime is because the HbA1c result could be skewed by a lot of hypos and highs averaging out to a non-diabetic HbA1c, yet the person could still be having damage done by the high BGs whilst having life threatening hypos to average the HbA1c to a reasonable level. For me, the whole point of trying to achieve remission is to try to stay healthy and without diabetic complications for as long as possible so having a 'false low' HbA1c created by drugs wouldn't be a good idea, but if someone's BGs stay relatively stable and there aren't massive peaks and troughs in BGs then yes I would like to hear from you please.

 

[lovinglife]

Not me but my friend who has been T2 for at least 18 years was on the full raft of tablets plus insulin has just recently lost a massive amount of weight with Slimming World - she is now off all insulin and tablets except metformin and looks amazing - I think she said she'd lost 8st but she's only 5ft 1in.

Her motivation wasn't her diabetes but another unrelated health condition that she needed to sort out.

 

[zand]

Not me but my friend who has been T2 for at least 18 years was on the full raft of tablets plus insulin has just recently lost a massive amount of weight with Slimming World - she is now off all insulin and tablets except metformin and looks amazing - I think she said she'd lost 8st but she's only 5ft 1in.

Her motivation wasn't her diabetes but another unrelated health condition that she needed to sort out.

That's amazing! It's especially good to hear that it's never too late to try something new, we often hear of remission happening to people who haven't been T2 for long, but 18 years, and on insulin too...Wow! That is really something!

Thank you.

 

[Indy51]

Not me but my friend who has been T2 for at least 18 years was on the full raft of tablets plus insulin has just recently lost a massive amount of weight with Slimming World - she is now off all insulin and tablets except metformin and looks amazing - I think she said she'd lost 8st but she's only 5ft 1in.

Her motivation wasn't her diabetes but another unrelated health condition that she needed to sort out.

Your friend's experience seems to confirm the theories of Profs Roy Taylor and Mike Lean that remission is possible with weight loss, however achieved. Excellent job and congrats to your friend

 

[david1968]

More exercise and intermittent fasting worked for me - reasonably low carb as well (totally cut out bread and drastically redcued potatoe intake). Walk five or six miles most days and usually eat just one meal a day, but occasionally do extended fasts. Lost four and a half stone, lost six inches round my waste, came off insulin and went onto metformin, but now managing by diet and exercise.

 

[DCUKMod]

I occasionally see posters saying that this forum is very biased towards LCHF. I don't believe it is, I think LCHF has helped so many people that it just looks that way. The ND is quite popular here too and there are already several threads about it. I know some here have had success with it. That's why I would like answers only from non LCHF and non ND successes please. These two diets are the only two that have helped me at all and as I have had no success with anything else I personally can't really recommend anything else. So those of you who are champing at the bit to say what worked for you please do so on this thread. Please, no arguments about what is better, just straightforward personal experiences. I am sure there must be other methods out there? If you have had success at controlling T2 with anything other than LCHF and ND here's your chance to have your say. I have started the thread just for you.

To clarify by LCHF I mean Low Carb High Fat - low carb being less than 130g of carbs daily (Trudi Deakin's definition), with moderate protein and enough fat to satiate your appetite. Each of us will have our own formula for this. By High Fat I mean using full fat products and eating fat from meat and dairy etc as well as other healthy fats.

By ND I mean Newcastle diet or any other very low cal diet (whether with real food or meal replacements) of around 800 cals daily ( or less) for around 8 weeks or longer. (The complete ND is in fact longer than the 8 weeks and includes a re-feeding/ maintenance period after the very low cal phase.)

We already know that both of these methods work. We have seen the success stories on this forum. What else is out there?

So I have started this thread to ask what you did to achieve remission. Was it diet? Exercise? Drugs? Did you need insulin from the start? Any combination of the 4?

Zand, after a bonkers-busy day, I'm only just encountering this thread, and I have no wish to interfere, but would it be worthwhile defining remission, just as you have LCHF and the ND? That way, you, and others of course, would know what they're both looking at and responding too?

Nice thread though. A single size doesn't fit all, so invaluable to understand what might be going on in the grey areas.

 

[Antje77]

Zand, after a bonkers-busy day, I'm only just encountering this thread, and I have no wish to interfere, but would it be worthwhile defining remission, just as you have LCHF and the ND? That way, you, and others of course, would know what they're both looking at and responding too?

Nice thread though. A single size doesn't fit all, so invaluable to understand what might be going on in the grey areas.

Or maybe even better, ask responders for their definition of remission or elaboration of results?

 

[DCUKMod]

Or maybe even better, ask responders for their definition of remission or elaboration of results?

If the definition is set, it's easier to be comfortable one is viewing and comparing red apples with red apples, as opposed to red apples with under-ripe pears, but that's the process improvement wallah in me muscling to the fore.

 

[zand]

Zand, after a bonkers-busy day, I'm only just encountering this thread, and I have no wish to interfere, but would it be worthwhile defining remission, just as you have LCHF and the ND? That way, you, and others of course, would know what they're both looking at and responding too?

Nice thread though. A single size doesn't fit all, so invaluable to understand what might be going on in the grey areas.

Yes of course.

OK Let's keep it simple. Remission for me means achieving an HbA1c of 47 mmol/mol (6.4%) or lower, so no longer technically T2 at that point. Some of us will have achieved that and then drifted back over the line to 48+, but for the purposes of this thread I would like to hear from anyone who has ever achieved remission. even temporarily via any method other than the two I have mentioned.

 

[zand]

More exercise and intermittent fasting worked for me - reasonably low carb as well (totally cut out bread and drastically redcued potatoe intake). Walk five or six miles most days and usually eat just one meal a day, but occasionally do extended fasts. Lost four and a half stone, lost six inches round my waste, came off insulin and went onto metformin, but now managing by diet and exercise.

Brilliant! Thank you. So for you the calories in/calories out method has worked and you worked at improving both sides of the formula at the same time giving fantastic results. This is just the sort of post I was hoping for when I started this thread. I have introduced one meal a day OMAD myself recently too and find it to be very helpful with weight loss. Can I ask you how long ago you were diagnosed as T2? It would be useful to have that info on this thread too.

 

[Phoenix55]

My last HbA1c came in at 6.3, so I just qualify as being 'in remission'. I used eating to my meter as my method. I found the meals and foods I could eat without disrupting my routine too much - breakfast, packed lunch and a quick meal on days I was working; breakfast and a main meal on other days. In effect I found LC by trial and error for myself and have found healthy fat foods, olives, cheese etc. for snacks when 'peckish' or on an evening shift. I have maintained my weight loss since the test but should really do more exercise to keep fit, maintain bone density, muscle mass etc. Still Rome was not built in a day and I have always advocated a small steps approach to make a change in established habits.

 

[DCUKMod]

Yes of course.

OK Let's keep it simple. Remission for me means achieving an HbA1c of 47 mmol/mol (6.4%) or lower, so no longer technically T2 at that point. Some of us will have achieved that and then drifted back over the line to 48+, but for the purposes of this thread I would like to hear from anyone who has ever achieved remission. even temporarily via any method other than the two I have mentioned.

Hi again Zand (I'm about to sound like your usual worst nightmare, but..........), would it be worthwhile having your definition copied into the OP, to ensure the majority of folks see it?

Sorry, sorry! I've been involved in too much data gathering over the years, obviously!

Please don't think I'm instructing you to do anything, just making a suggestion.

(I'll get lost now, as I can read your mind. )

 

[Brunneria]

@zand are you including the use of diabetic drugs/herbs such as metformin, berberine and/or bitter melon in your criteria for remission?

The reason I ask, is that we have (previously) had rather intense threads from people declaring that remission only counts if it is drug free, and others declaring that remission is remission whether you maintain it with the help of medication/herbs, or not.

Would be a pity if this thread got derailed with that particular discussion!

Oops! just seen that dcukmod has posted again, too.
Sorry, we are just trying to avoid some future bumps in the thread road.

 

[Indy51]

Yes of course.

OK Let's keep it simple. Remission for me means achieving an HbA1c of 47 mmol/mol (6.4%) or lower, so no longer technically T2 at that point. Some of us will have achieved that and then drifted back over the line to 48+, but for the purposes of this thread I would like to hear from anyone who has ever achieved remission. even temporarily via any method other than the two I have mentioned.

Well by those standards I've been in remission for 6 years. But I'm LCHF/keto, so don't need to go into detail about how I did it. That's a relief because personally I won't ever class myself in remission because I've seen my meter when I exceed my carb threshold, so don't much care what my A1c has to say about it

 

[zand]

@zand are you including the use of diabetic drugs/herbs such as metformin, berberine and/or bitter melon in your criteria for remission?

The reason I ask, is that we have (previously) had rather intense threads from people declaring that remission only counts if it is drug free, and others declaring that remission is remission whether you maintain it with the help of medication/herbs, or not.

Would be a pity if this thread got derailed with that particular discussion!

lol I was just about to mention that! OK maybe I should spend longer planning these threads so of mine before starting them.
I tend to agree that normally you would expect remission to be drugfree. However for the purposes of this thread if someone achieves remission whilst still using drugs that's fine. The idea of the thread was to give newbies choices and if the preference is to use drugs and/or supplements then I think that option should be included here.

The only thing I would say about achieving remission using certain drugs which increase insulin output from the pancreas or using insulin itself is that one has to be careful whilst making judgements on how good the regime is because the HbA1c result could be skewed by a lot of hypos and highs averaging out to a non-diabetic HbA1c, yet the person could still be having damage done by the high BGs whilst having life threatening hypos to average the HbA1c to a reasonable level. For me, the whole point of trying to achieve remission is to try to stay healthy and without diabetic complications for as long as possible so having a 'false low' HbA1c created by drugs wouldn't be a good idea, but if someone's BGs stay relatively stable and there aren't massive peaks and troughs in BGs then yes I would like to hear from them.

 

[zand]

My last HbA1c came in at 6.3, so I just qualify as being 'in remission'. I used eating to my meter as my method. I found the meals and foods I could eat without disrupting my routine too much - breakfast, packed lunch and a quick meal on days I was working; breakfast and a main meal on other days. In effect I found LC by trial and error for myself and have found healthy fat foods, olives, cheese etc. for snacks when 'peckish' or on an evening shift. I have maintained my weight loss since the test but should really do more exercise to keep fit, maintain bone density, muscle mass etc. Still Rome was not built in a day and I have always advocated a small steps approach to make a change in established habits.

Perfect! A method tailored to your own individual needs. To my mind eating to your meter is the best tool to find what is right for you (but I told myself I wouldn't judge each method, so I need to be careful here lol)

 

[zand]

Hi again Zand (I'm about to sound like your usual worst nightmare, but..........), would it be worthwhile having your definition copied into the OP, to ensure the majority of folks see it?

Sorry, sorry! I've been involved in too much data gathering over the years, obviously!

Please don't think I'm instructing you to do anything, just making a suggestion.

(I'll get lost now, as I can read your mind. )

Carry on with your suggestions, it saves me from having to do too much thinking ....I'll let you know when I don't want any more lol.

 

[rhubarb73]

I have nothing to add other than that this is a very good idea for a thread and we should try to avoid it becoming a challenging debate: we really should encourage all alternative methods to be aired. What works, works.

 

[Indy51]

While I was being a bit facetious before, I really hope we don't get too bogged down with definitions. We've had these reversed, remission, cured etc. discussions (ad nauseam) way too many times already IMO. If the person considers themselves enough in remission to answer this thread with their methods, that self-definition is a good place to start.

 

[david1968]

Brilliant! Thank you. So for you the calories in/calories out method has worked and you worked at improving both sides of the formula at the same time giving fantastic results. This is just the sort of post I was hoping for when I started this thread. I have introduced one meal a day OMAD myself recently too and find it to be very helpful with weight loss. Can I ask you how long ago you were diagnosed as T2? It would be useful to have that info on this thread too.

I was diagnosed six years ago whilst in hospital for an operation. Nobody had picked up on it before (though looking back the signs were there) and one of the first questions they asked me after I came round was did I know I was diabetic.

I was put straight on insulin (34 units a day of Novorapid and the same of Levimir) and was on that regime for about five years.

Then got to the point about a year ago where my GP agreed that I could come off insulin and go onto metformin.

Then came off metformin about three months ago.

Last two HbA1c results have been 38 (about a year ago) and 42 (two months ago).

Consider myself to be in remission at the moment, but accept that it's a condition that's going to have to be managed for the rest of my life.