Which Foods Affect Blood Sugar

[Unbeliever]

While sorting out some papers from the hospital I came across a leaflet which I dont remember o have seeen before ,obviously given to me with others from the hospital diabetes clinic

From time to time I see posts on here denying that patients are advised to eat starchy carbs at every meal. I know I wasnt actually told to do this but I didn't receive any particular dietary advice
eexcept a mild suggestion to look at GI which I was already doing.

This leaflet divides carbohydates into Starchy and sugary. It gives examples of each and goes on to say that starchy carbohydrates help to keep blood suga levels steady because they cause a gradual rise and fall in blood sugar levels.
It is recommended to include these foods at every meal. They are naturally lower in sugar and fat than sugary cabs so are a good choice to fill you up and help you lose weight.

Hmmmmm

 

[viviennem]

I have a theory that maybe it's developed from advice to Type 1s - do they get told to eat carbs regularly so they can manage to keep their BG levels stable throughout the day?

Sorry, Type 1s, how rude of me! I mean do you, or were you ever in the past, told to eat carbs at every meal to keep BGs stable?

I can see a situation where someone might be advised to eat a regular amount of carbohydrate if they have very unstable BGs and are injecting insulin. Even if it's the correct advice for some Type 1s, I would think it isn't for many Type 2s - well, we know it isn't. My BGs stay pretty stable whether I eat or not, and are certainly very stable on my low-carb diet.

I have this sneaking feeling that most basic NHS training focuses on Type 1 because it's the most immediately dangerous. They don't worry about us Type 2s until we go blind or our feet drop off - and then it's our fault 'cos we we've been badly controlled :roll: .

I also suspect that some HCPs, who don't have much to do with diabetes, don't really understand the difference between Type 1 and Type 2. I don't think that very much time is spent on the subject in basic training - just like they spend very little time learning about nutrition.

Just a few thoughts - any comments?

Viv 8)

 

[Unbeliever]

The leaflet certainly doesn't differentiate between T1s and T2s but you would think if it was in the diabetes clinic of the hospital hey would know a LITTLE about it?

Incidentally , the dietician who must have given me this leaflet - she wanted to write her phone numbe down for me - found no fault with my diet was at a loss to know why I had beeen sent to he {to fill in time i think} but hinted strongly that the "magic word" was Carbs.

 

[josie38]

I think you are right vivien the advice seems to be pretty standard unless you have a problem with your weight or bgs. As a T1, every time i see the dietician i am told to eat complex carbs to keep my bgs stable throughout the day but i dont like to eat carbs with every meal.

I dont think that there is a differential between T1 and T2 when they give out diet advice at clinics.

Josie

 

[Sid Bonkers]

From time to time I see posts on here denying that patients are advised to eat starchy carbs at every meal.

I think you mean posts on here denying that patients are told to eat LOADS of starchy carbs with every meal, big difference!

As for advising to eat complex carbs with each meal that sounds like sensible advice to me and is exactly what I and 1000's of other T2's do every day. It is all about portion control, there is nothing wrong with eating carbs with every meal as long as you test to find out what you can and cant eat, portion size wise.

As all my A1c's have been in the 5%'s since the first 12.9% at diagnosis I dont think it is bad advice at all. Not everyone is an ultra low carber

 

[totsy]

when first diagnosed and on novomix i was told to eat carbs with every meal which led to rollercoasting levels and weight gain, after joining here i went lower carb and onto novorapid, bloods went stable and i lost 5 stone,
my g.p is still against lower carbs in diabetics :?

 

[the_anticarb]

I'm an insulin dependent mody, but have been diagnosed as t1 and t2 at different times in my life (including, strangely, one consultant who said he couldn't diagnose me at all!)

Anyway, when first diagnosed in 1992 I was told to eat wholemeal/wholegrain starches and avoid sugars/junk food.

Fast foreward to now and the only way i can tolerate foods like rice, bread and potatoes is by taking a nice big shot of novorapid beforehand....had a lovely curry last night with a starter of samosas and onion bhajis, needed to inject 12 u over the course of the evening for this (it was a special occasion, I don't eat like this very often!). I definitely have a problem with all carbs, it doesn't seem to make much difference if their sugary or not. I even went for a walk yesterday, and because my bg was 4.5 ate a cookie beforehand to avoid going hypo...after 30 mins brisk exercise I'd gone up to 7!

My point is, all carbs are the same to me, the only way I can keep my blood sugar steady is to eat a low carb diet OR play the novorapid guessing game, which if played wrongly leads to the hypo rollercoaster game. This makes logical sense, as all carbs break down in the body to glucose, which becomes blood glucose.

But tell this to your average HCP and they look at you like you've just landed from Mars!

I agree that the 'carbs is good' message comes from the old mixtard days where T1s had to have a certain amount of carbs at regular intervals to balance their rigid insulin regimes. Also, it's become dogma - for the medical profession to admit they've made a mistake and change their advice so fundamentally would require a massive change.

I do agree that for the average healthy non diabetic, unprocessed carbs are a good source of energy...but why pretend we are like them? We're not...our bodies don't work properly, for a variety of reasons we cannot produce enough insulin...so why this pretence that we can have the same diet?

 

[hanadr]

Unbeliever
I'm sure that the people who write that stuff haven't got as far a GCSE chemistry, let alone an understanding of metabolism or molecular biology.
ALL CARBOHYDRATES are composed of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms only. Most are polymers of molecules called monosaccharides [glucose is a monosaccharide] Some monosaccharides are biologically active, but not all. Since foods come from biological sources, it stands to reason that their monosaccharides are biologically active ones.
glucose is probably the most common monosaccharide in Nature.
Glucose is what we need to control in our blood. Starchy carbs are mainly made up of 2 glucose polymers, amylose and amylopectin. Either of these is quickly and easily broken down to glucose in the bloodstream. Cellulose is a glucose polymer, which isn't broken down by human digestive processes. We usually call it "fibre"
Many sugars are dimers of simpler sugars. Sucrose [table sugar] is made up of 1 molecule of glucose bonded with 1 molecule of fructose. Since fructose doesn't raise blood glucose, only 50% of each sucrose molecule ends up as blood glucose. Starch is made up of chains of glucose. Straight chains are "amylose" branched chains are "amylopectin" thus starch is 100% glucose and contrary to what is often written, it actually doesn't take long to break down either kind of chain.
SO if you eat 100g of sucrose, you'll end up with 50g blood glucose fairly fast. If you eat 100g starch, you'll end up with 100g blood glucose, not slowly. Anyone who got to "A" level chemistry should be able to work that out, or to glean it from a molecular biologly textbook.
It makes me angry that the people charged with giving advice don't seem to know the basics of metabolic chemistry. I know that nurses were not required to know anything like this a few years ago, but surely we've moved on? And what about dieticians? What are they required to know?
I know one very lovely DSN who has said she'd love to be able to go on a course to learn it.
Me, sadly I've forgotten too much of this stuff, but I do still have the textbooks and the skills to interpret what's in them.
Hana

 

[noblehead]

I do agree that for the average healthy non diabetic, unprocessed carbs are a good source of energy...but why pretend we are like them? We're not...our bodies don't work properly, for a variety of reasons we cannot produce enough insulin...so why this pretence that we can have the same diet?

With the exception of a fully working pancreas I don't see myself being any different to a 'healthy non diabetic'. The insulin I inject covers my food adequately in the same way as a 'non-diabetic' would see.

 

[Anonymous]

As for advising to eat complex carbs with each meal that sounds like sensible advice to me and is exactly what I and 1000's of other T2's do every day.

That's a huge generalisation - by the same token there must be 1000's of badly controlled, poorly advised Type 2's who are eating carbs with every meal and storing up health problems in future. Blood sugar control is the key and if you are able to get those numbers whilst eating carbs Sid then you are fortunate, not least because your Pancreas hasn't deteriorated as much as mine, yet.

Hanadr, that was an excellent post - I don't begin to understand how much of this stuff works but I do want to understand so thanks for taking the time.

S

 

[Anonymous]

From time to time I see posts on here denying that patients are advised to eat starchy carbs at every meal.

I think you mean posts on here denying that patients are told to eat LOADS of starchy carbs with every meal, big difference!

As for advising to eat complex carbs with each meal that sounds like sensible advice to me and is exactly what I and 1000's of other T2's do every day. It is all about portion control, there is nothing wrong with eating carbs with every meal as long as you test to find out what you can and cant eat, portion size wise.

As all my A1c's have been in the 5%'s since the first 12.9% at diagnosis I dont think it is bad advice at all. Not everyone is an ultra low carber

Hi Sid.

The information session I attended last week said we should eat more carbs than anything else. The speaker advise eating white bread, pasta and rice. He was angry with me for suggesting Burgen bread. More to me says more on the plate than anything else.

 

[susiegoo]

Do read Dr John Briffa on the subject. He is well informed, has read a lot of research and has come to the conclusion that carbs are very bad for either group of diabetics. He has a blog too, worth a visit.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on what insulin regime you're on. With a basal/bolus you're rather free to have carbs or not as long as you adjust you bolus accordingly. I never tried anything else myself but I think that with some insulins you only take them like twice a day and then you need to eat some carbs at fairly regular intervals so as not go hypo.

 

[Pneu]

I think it is worth remembering that type I and II in some ways are very different illness.. Type II by definition is a resistance to insulin and as such it makes sense that reducing your bodies need for insulin (i.e. eating less carbohydrate) it going to help you to maintain better blood glucose..

Type I is an inability to produce insulin... most type I's are perfectly 'normal' when it comes to insulin resistance and as such function like a 'normal' person.. For these people I can certainly see the sense in them eating starchy carbohydrate with each meal... although its by no means the only way to go about it.

 

[Christinelh]

I do not like eating too many carbs at meal times due to weight gain and the need for more insulin I hardly ever have a latte as this needs insulin as well somehow it ruins it all carbs really affect me I do wonder if I did not eatvany carbs then maybe no need for insulin I am type 1thus have to eat carbs it is a nightmare

 

[the_anticarb]

I do agree that for the average healthy non diabetic, unprocessed carbs are a good source of energy...but why pretend we are like them? We're not...our bodies don't work properly, for a variety of reasons we cannot produce enough insulin...so why this pretence that we can have the same diet?

With the exception of a fully working pancreas I don't see myself being any different to a 'healthy non diabetic'. The insulin I inject covers my food adequately in the same way as a 'non-diabetic' would see.

That's good for you Noblehead but when I try that I end up putting on a ton of weight and going hypo every now and then, particularly if I snack (like a non diabetic would) which is an inconvenience as it means I'm always worrying I may go hypo, even if I don't! Maybe you've got a handle the carb counting/matching thing a bit better than me...I wish I knew your secrets!

 

[the_anticarb]

I do not like eating too many carbs at meal times due to weight gain and the need for more insulin I hardly ever have a latte as this needs insulin as well somehow it ruins it all carbs really affect me I do wonder if I did not eatvany carbs then maybe no need for insulin I am type 1thus have to eat carbs it is a nightmare

I'm like this too Christinelh, as a MODY as far as I understand it, I'm not insulin resistant but the normal message to tell the body to produce insulin does not get through (my body can still produce a little of its own, though nowhere near enough). If I don't eat any carbs, for example in atkins strict induction (well, under 20g at least) I still need to do my basal insulin but don't need to bolus. i can reduce my basal a little though, eg from 20u to 16 u

 

[Rafim]

I do not know what planet you guys come from - everone is talking carbs carbs carbs - NO ONE is talking Glicemic Index. If you have never heard of it, I forgive you. I do not forgive your caregivers for not telling you about it. I am not going to tell you about it now - Go (immediately) to Uncle Google and find out what the rest of the world is doing. And change your lives. The glicemic index will tell you what to eat and will save your life. Our late neighbor was forever injecting herself, writing down the findings, not willing to find out about the GI, and then she lost her big toe, then the next one and went on after a long suffering. IF the GI is so bad, I would love to know, I am surviving well on it (type 2 Hb1 5.9).

 

[xyzzy]

I do not know what planet you guys come from - everone is talking carbs carbs carbs - NO ONE is talking Glicemic Index. If you have never heard of it, I forgive you. I do not forgive your caregivers for not telling you about it. I am not going to tell you about it now - Go (immediately) to Uncle Google and find out what the rest of the world is doing. And change your lives. The glicemic index will tell you what to eat and will save your life. Our late neighbor was forever injecting herself, writing down the findings, not willing to find out about the GI, and then she lost her big toe, then the next one and went on after a long suffering. IF the GI is so bad, I would love to know, I am surviving well on it (type 2 Hb1 5.9).

I suggest you read this about GI and why it may not be entirely appropiate for diabetics and why it maybe just plain wrong.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/22168291.php

Are you suggesting a Type 1 or insulin dependent diabetic can just get by on GI food and not inject? If so you are a very dangerous person as that would undoubtedly kill them all. Loads of the Type 2's on this forum take no drugs and do well on their low(ish) carb diets and I object to you implying that I am "forever injecting" as I don't inject at all and maintain my blood sugars at a far lower levels than your pretty normal (for this forum) 5.9 HbA1c. Perhaps you should take you head out of your a**e and try learning something for a change.

Oh and I see your HbA1c has actually risen from 5.5 to 5.9 so not that good then is it? Even at 5.5 I'm beating you hands down.

 

[lucylocket61]

ROFLOL at this reply. Brilliant.