Who are you voting for in the general election 2017?

[dbr10]

Ickihun I fear they have not learned their lesson and never will. By their own admission not everything in the manifesto is allowed for and we keep getting additions to the spend. It would be a shame especially since the annual deficit has reduced from £153.5bn in 2010 to £43.1bn in 2017. Until such time as the deficit (difference between what we earn and spend) is eliminated nothing can be done about reducing the debt. We've been here a few times in my lifetime and the cycle keeps repeating. We cannot tax, spend and borrow our way out of a mess. Their manifesto costings are about as realistic as the SNP's which looks at £118bn extra spending against a budget in 2017 of £37bn?
Wouldn't it be nice if politicians could work together using their skills and consulting with experts for the good of the UK rather than bitterness continually damaging the country. Regrettably it will never happen though.

I think all the manifesto books are cooked according to independent experts.

 

[Prem51]

I believe that is true; but we should also remember that Labour has carried out some NHS privitisation too - and I absolutely disagree with the policy.

Yes the New Labour Government did, especially with the PFI financing of new hospitals.
But I don't think a Corbyn Labour Government would continue with the backdoor privatisation of the NHS.

 

[dbr10]

Yes the New Labour Government did, especially with the PFI financing of new hospitals.
But I don't think a Corbyn Labour Government would continue with the backdoor privatisation of the NHS.

I would hope not. There certainly was a big increase in PFI deals under New Labour, which they had rightly criticised Major for when they were in opposition. All to get the spending off the Public Sector Borrowing Requirement. Many were very poor value for money.

 

[dbr10]

I agree, and it's because of labour's ridiculous policies that we need austerity at all. Spending what we haven't got always feels good at the time, not so good when we have to pay it back plus interest.

Not wishing to cause further offence, but Austerity is a political policy, not an economic one. Osborne's aim was to reduce the State sector to less than 34% of GDP - less proportionately even than in the US. There is no economic reason for it. State spending currently accounts for 40% - in Germany it is 44%. Their economy normally performs better than ours and gives them more to spend on Public services like the health service.

 

[dbr10]

I'm not pro any party, just pro common sense.

@Mr_Pot that's exactly what so many want to do...to have what others are perceived to have for themselves. What they don't realise is that once it's all shared out they will still have nothing.

I think it's time I left this thread now, the last one got nasty and a handful of people made particularly cruel unjustified comments about me personally. I'm not going through that again.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Deespee23]

None of your examples show a government policy to privatize the health service, they are just scare mongering stories. The fact is if Mr Corbyn and his cronies had their way this country would be bankrupt very quickly and then there would be a real threat to our health service and pensions. Look at what has happened to Greece, a prime example of what happens to a country that lived beyond its means.

And what about May's Magic Money Tree for banks, corporations and Tory party donors. She doesn't seem to mind living beyond her means when those parties have to be cuddled, but God forbid if any of our tax money should be spent on us. And remind me again, how much has the national debt increased since the Tories took power? How much more than the last Labour Government? And if a government minister is putting his or her name to things, then as far as I'm concerned it is government policy.

 

[Bluetit1802]

But, "Enough is Enough" is just another meaningless phrase.

It was pretty defining to me and means exactly what it says. Time for real hard line action.

And while the Conservatives want more cuts to the NHS, education, pensions, welfare benefits, and free lunches for primary school children, they want to cut Corporation Tax for Big Business further.
It wasn't the sick, disabled, unemployed, pensioners and children who caused the 2008 crash. It was Big Business - the Banks.

Where do you get the idea the Conservatives want cuts to the NHS and education? That is not what it says in the manifesto.
Schools budget will increase by £4billion and be more fairly spread. Free school dinners for some children scrapped but replaced by free breakfasts for all children at primary schools. An extra minimum of £8billion to the NHS. I don't call those cuts.

After Brexit we need as much business as possible. Increasing their liabilities is no incentive for any business to set up here, and will encourage some to leave - we all lose especially those working for those businesses.

Same goes for big increases to the minimum wage. It isn't just the workers on minimum wage to consider but their supervisors and their supervisors right up to the top level who will also need a pay rise to keep the differentials reasonable and fair. There will be job losses, and if like us you have owned a small business you would understand how this works.

I agree. Banks need more regulating - but not all corporations and big businesses are banks, and the reality is, we need everyone of them.

.

 

[dbr10]

And what about May's Magic Money Tree for banks, corporations and Tory party donors. She doesn't seem to mind living beyond her means when those parties have to be cuddled, but God forbid if any of our tax money should be spent on us. And remind me again, how much has the national debt increased since the Tories took power? How much more than the last Labour Government? And if a government minister is putting his or her name to things, then as far as I'm concerned it is government policy.

Money can always be found for some things. These are political decisions. The National Debt has doubled approximately. And with growth policies, rather than austerity, the economy expands, there is more growth and the deficit is closed by a combination of an increase in tax revenues and a fall in spending on benefit payments.

 

[Deespee23]

The last labour government left us all poor, I have not had a pay rise in over 8 years from my employer but thanks to the conservatives my take home pay has risen.

No it didn't - was the deregulation of the banking sector started by St.Margaret that culminated in the 2008 crash that Labour were dealing with quite nicely until the Dave & Nick love-in screwed it all up....how much was the national debt in 2010? How much is it now? As for your pay rise, I would remind you, as you obviously haven't noticed, that a Tory government has been in power for the last 7 years, so how you blame that on Labour I'm not really sure. Delusional.

 

[Deespee23]

I seem to have more disposable income than before and the only difference to my income has been the change in the personal allowance. I earn less than £25k and am not in receipt of any benefits or tax credits.

"Seem"? What does that mean? Now who's being uncritical and subjective? How much? 10p? Fill yer boots.

 

[Deespee23]

Can you really trust this man.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy

Yes. More than I would trust an obvious Tory party shill.

 

[dbr10]

No it didn't - was the deregulation of the banking sector started by St.Margaret that culminated in the 2008 crash that Labour were dealing with quite nicely until the Dave & Nick love-in screwed it all up....how much was the national debt in 2010? How much is it now? As for your pay rise, I would remind you, as you obviously haven't noticed, that a Tory government has been in power for the last 7 years, so how you blame that on Labour I'm not really sure. Delusional.

It's true that Nigel Lawson deregulated the city under so called "Big Bang". What usually happens is there is a crisis followed by calls for more regulation, followed by implementation of watered down proposals, followed by lobbying to relax controls, followed by another crisis.

Mrs Thatcher did take us into the single market though - something which was the right policy then and now.

 

[maglil55]

Did you answer the OP's question?

I did to the extent that I said I have voted for different candidates. I have voted SNP twice but will not do so this time, I have voted Labour when we have had a good local candidate and occasionally I have voted Conservative and even LibDem but that was when I lived elsewhere. This time is will be Labour or Conservative but leaning towards Conservative as she is a local lass , down to earth and understands the issues. I suspect SNP will still take the seat but with a reduced majority.

 

[dbr10]

It was pretty defining to me and means exactly what it says. Time for real hard line action.

A concrete proposal?

Where do you get the idea the Conservatives want cuts to the NHS and education? That is not what it says in the manifesto.
Schools budget will increase by £4billion and be more fairly spread. Free school dinners for some children scrapped but replaced by free breakfasts for all children at primary schools. An extra minimum of £8billion to the NHS. I don't call those cuts.

Spending per patient and per pupil will fall in real terms. You cannot take any notice of cash figures.

And remember that the 8bn the NHS asked for just to stand still was spent TWICE - on the NHS AND on 7 day surgeries.

After Brexit we need as much business as possible. Increasing their liabilities is no incentive for any business to set up here, and will encourage some to leave - we all lose especially those working for those businesses.

A bigger factor is access to the single market. Doubts mean some companies and banks are considering moving to the continent.

Same goes for big increases to the minimum wage. It isn't just the workers on minimum wage to consider but their supervisors and their supervisors right up to the top level who will also need a pay rise to keep the differentials reasonable and fair. There will be job losses, and if like us you have owned a small business you would understand how this works.

But you wouldn't agree that the Taxpayer should be subsidising employers through in work benefits for those whose wages are too low to live on.

I agree. Banks need more regulating - but not all corporations and big businesses are banks, and the reality is, we need everyone of them.

.

 

[dbr10]

"Seem"? What does that mean? Now who's being uncritical and subjective? How much? 10p? Fill yer boots.

We would need to know what the cash increases were and what inflation was over the period.

 

[maglil55]

Last time I looked abolishing the current deficit had been postponed indefinitely. At least until 2022. In the meantime the National Debt has increased from over £800bn to £1.7tn.

Which is what I said - until the deficit is eliminated nothing can be done about the debt. The debt is always going to increase so long as we have a deficit but not everyone appreciates the difference.

 

[dbr10]

Which is what I said - until the deficit is eliminated nothing can be done about the debt. The debt is always going to increase so long as we have a deficit but not everyone appreciates the difference.

Growth policies are the best way to eliminate deficits. In a recession, economic activity falls, tax revenues fall, and spending on benefits increases. It is quite natural to have deficits in a recession. Government spending can maintain demand in the economy.
In a boom, the opposite happens. Spending falls, tax revenues rise, demend is taken out of the economy and it slows down. We should aim to balance the budget over the business cycle.

 

[Lamont D]

I really couldn't give a **** about GDP, bank rates, and interest payments to banks.
The national debt is going up! Even with a thriving economy!
I don't care about policies, I don't care about how people live their lives or spend their money.
What I care about is having enough money to get to my next pay day! (I've struggled for years because my wife can't earn and I have had to come out of retirement to earn because, we can't claim benefits because of my pension!
What I care about is my grandkids getting a good education.
It won't if the government introduces grammar schools.
No matter what people spout, they are elitist!
What I care about is the NHS, my parents and grandparents fought for the right to free health care at the point of care.
This is eroding very quickly. If you haven't been lately, I would spend a Monday morning in ER. Appointments are being cancelled because of cutbacks, staff shortages and red tape!
My hospital was closed because of a viral infection, no alternatives were given.
The NHS is broken, it started with Thatcher, worse under new Labour, it snowballed under the Tories. My own endocrinologist appointment has been cancelled twice.
What I care about is social care, I getting old, (I'm already an oap!) my wife will need help soon, my father in law will be in a home soon as we can't cope.
My son's partner works in a zero hour care home. The horror stories abound!
What I care about is my neighbours. My town has two food banks, neighbouring town has one! The Merseyside area has about ten!
The numbers increase week in, week out! It is the shame of modern Britain. This government has done nothing to alleviate the problem.
The number of homeless people has dramatically increased.
Even the charities and churches are struggling to provide for the increasing poverty especially in children.
What I care about is being Christian, even though I don't practice, the government priority should be the people that cannot for whatever reason look after themselves particularly the young, the elderly, the disabled, the vulnerable!
Instead of targeting them for cuts!

I was born into extreme poverty.
I won a grammar school place!
I have never had a day on the dole!
I've played my taxes.

And my government still wants to make the poor poorer by its ideological mantra.
I can't afford to worry about government policies.
My next meal is more important!

How anyone with a Christian background and has a social conscious could ever consider voting Tory is beyond me!

There are kids out there not getting fed, now!

As for the terrorist attacks, which I abhor!
Why?
I don't understand it at all!
Religious fervour and propaganda probably, subverting our own youth, yes British youth to attack other people on the streets of our cities.
Hate is the answer!
Hate crimes and racism has become the norm because of our lack of social awareness to our neighbours.
Division and inequality breeds hate!
We need to stop hating each other. Manchester as a city has shown the way, the way forward is to preach the fact that hate is not wanted in this country.


That's enough!
I could go on, but anyone on this forum has to be interested in their health, should consider the government's record with the NHS!
It is broken, due to dogma of the last five governments including Labour's last stint!

We need a social (not socialist!) approach to health care and stop the profiteers which are rife in the service. We need a system that can be fully funded and functional as to the country's needs, not more severe cutbacks, which is actually causing great concern for those who need it and don't get it!

I would say again, how anyone with a medical condition can even think about voting Tory, is beyond me!
Vote anyone but Tory, please, for my health, my wife, my kids, my grandkids and my neighbours!
I fear the outcome!

 

[Spencer67]

For me voting has got very weird, i have always been a socialist lefty, feel we need the nhs supported more than ever but i don't trust corbyn and i have never voted tory, however, because of all the recent London and Manchester stuff i will probably use my vote as a tactical vote for May as i don't think labour is ready for power, they are not capable of making the right decisions right now for the national security, i like Andy Burnham, the new Manchester mayor, i'd have voted for him, but right now labour are not fit for office imo, i like May she's diabetic and down to earth, one of us so to speak. I look at it this way... it's not forever, only another four years, and the torys have gone quite left lately so i don't think it should change, she looks like she will do a good job. it may be the jolt labour need to sort themselves out. Politics and religion is always a dodgy subject and it brings out the worst in people, but that's what i think anyway and i don't want a big argument about it cos really i'm not that bothered

 

[Dark Horse]

There are a number of fact-checking websites that might be helpful:-

• a charity https://fullfact.org/
• BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/267ada11-b730-4344-b404-63067c032c65/reality-check
• Channel 4 https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck
• More or less http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/downloads