Why was I needing 140+units of mixed insulin on a 30g carb diet?

[ickihun]

I've just discovered that insulin is for carb intake only.

I'm now wondering why I needed 140+units of mixed insulin on 30g carb pre metformin?

 

[slip]

Some people on a LCHF diet have to bolus for protein and fats?

 

[tim2000s]

@ickihun, not just carb intake, insulin is released in response to glucose presence in the blood. If you don't produce insulin, then this doesn't happen. Glucose levels in the blood can be increased through both carbohydrate ingestion and production of glucose by the liver by conversion from mainly protein.

I think your opening statement kind of explains it. Before metformin you needed a lot of insulin. After it you needed less. This is because metformin reduces peripheral insulin resistance (i.e. it makes it easier to activate the glucose transporters in the muscles) and also reduces the liver's production of glucose from protein.

It sounds as though you were/are very insulin resistant and may have produced a lot of hepatic glucose.

 

[ickihun]

Some people on a LCHF diet have to bolus for protein and fats?

Thanks @slip . So even on lchf insulin will be needed?
So is insulin for carb intake only? No it is needed for all 3 micros.
So i guess too much protein and fats can make you fat then?
I assumed protein made your muscles bigger, as long as used. I also assumed fat doesnt need insulin as it doesnt need to convert.
Mind u i did read recently how fat changes into cholesterol and body fat. Thanks @slip

 

[ickihun]

@ickihun, not just carb intake, insulin is released in response to glucose presence in the blood. If you don't produce insulin, then this doesn't happen. Glucose levels in the blood can be increased through both carbohydrate ingestion and production of glucose by the liver by conversion from mainly protein.

You know a light bulb has just come on!
My lchf must have been too protein and fat loaded. Hence no weight loss.
Thank you for helping me understand @tim2000s .
I need to try another lchf attempt with lower protein and fat.
Wish me luck!
God loves a trier!

 

[Brunneria]

If you have high insulin resistance then you would need more insulin than a non-insulin resistant person for it to do the same job.

 

[tim2000s]

You know a light bulb has just come on!
My lchf must have been too protein and fat loaded. Hence no weight loss.
Thank you for helping me understand @tim2000s .
I need to try another lchf attempt with lower protein and fat.
Wish me luck!
God loves a trier!

When Trudi Deakin talked about "LCHF" she spoke about eating 80% Fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. If you do this, the liver is unlikely to produce a great deal of glucose and you shouldn't be eating enough to cause a significant blood glucose increase, but my experience of LCHF is that you must limit the amount of calories that you eat in order to lose weight (for me that's 2000 per day).

 

[azure]

I've just discovered that insulin is for carb intake only.

I'm now wondering why I needed 140+units of mixed insulin on 30g carb pre metformin?

No, not only carb intake. That's the reason people need both basal and bolus insulin - basal as a background insulin to keep their blood sugar in range, bolus to cover meals.

@tim2000s has explained it well.

The large amount of insulin you had to take sounds like insulin resistance.

 

[noblehead]

No, not only carb intake. That's the reason people need both basal and bolus insulin - basal as a background insulin to keep their blood sugar in range, bolus to cover meals.

That's correct, @ickihun mixed insulin contains a combination of both longer (background) and short acting (for food) insulin's, but typically type 2's will be on higher doses of insulin than a type 1's due to insulin resistance.

 

[ickihun]

When Trudi Deakin talked about "LCHF she spoke about eating 80% Fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. If you do this, the liver is unlikely to produce a great deal of glucose and you shouldn't be eating enough to cause a significant blood glucose increase, but my experience of LCHF is that you must limit the amount of calories that you eat in order to lose weight (for me that's 2000 per day).

I was doing 1650 on myfitness or round about.
Will 80% fat not keep me fat?
I was definitely eating more than 15% protein.
Maybe 70- 80% , 10-15% fat and 10-15% carb or on stricted days 80% protein, 15% fat and 5% carb.
I'm afraid to eat so much fat. What if I have a heart attack!
@Robbity is very good filling her diet with 80% carb but she has trouble satisfying her hunger/palette.
It looks like I might have to try avocado @Kristin251 after all.
@Kristin251 has encouraged my higher fat need and less protein too.
Maybe I need to listen. Sorry.

I will give it all another try as I'd love to get rid of insulin altogether and eventually metformin.
I've never been med free in all time of diagnosis.
I was only on metformin in 2002 no blood pressure tablets either.
I believe blood pressure tablet are due to weight nothing else, hoping anyway.

 

[ickihun]

I'm still a bit confused.
Would the 80% fat compared to 80% protein not still result in me still needing insulin at same levels?
Or is the carbs and insulin need, higher than protein and even lower for fat?
Otherwise I will have same insulin needs, surely?

 

[donnellysdogs]

Depending which mixed insulin you are on and also the activity levels you have each day will also affect how much of this mixed dose is being used in your body....

 

[AndBreathe]

I was doing 1650 on myfitness or round about.
Will 80% fat not keep me fat?
I was definitely eating more than 15% protein.
Maybe 70- 80% , 10-15% fat and 10-15% carb or on stricted days 80% protein, 15% fat and 5% carb.
I'm afraid to eat so much fat. What if I have a heart attack!
@Robbity is very good filling her diet with 80% carb but she has trouble satisfying her hunger/palette.
It looks like I might have to try avocado @Kristin251 after all.
@Kristin251 has encouraged my higher fat need and less protein too.
Maybe I need to listen. Sorry.

I will give it all another try as I'd love to get rid of insulin altogether and eventually metformin.
I've never been med free in all time of diagnosis.
I was only on metformin in 2002 no blood pressure tablets either.
I believe blood pressure tablet are due to weight nothing else, hoping anyway.

Ickihun - Trudi Deakin (a Dietician) spoke recently at a Conference I attended about LCHF, it wasn't diabetes related, but was extremely good. Her book, Eat Fat is also worth a read.

The presentation can be found here:

That'll go through some of the stuff on fat.

 

[ickihun]

Ickihun - Trudi Deakin (a Dietician) spoke recently at a Conference I attended about LCHF, it wasn't diabetes related, but was extremely good. Her book, Eat Fat is also worth a read.

The presentation can be found here:

That'll go through some of the stuff on fat.

Is that the same book @KevinPotts is disecting at mo?

 

[AndBreathe]

Is that the same book @KevinPotts is disecting at mo?

No. It's very, very different.

Trudi is the founder and COE of X-Pert Health, who create and license health education materials and courses.

http://www.xperthealth.org.uk/home/trudi-deakin-biography

 

[Robbity]

@Robbity is very good filling her diet with 80% carb but she has trouble satisfying her hunger/palette.

@ckihun - are you not confusing me with someone else - I eat a high fat diet - certainly not an 80% carbs one, and expect I definitely would have trouble satisfying my hunger if I were eating that many! However on lchf I rarely feel any real hunger (apart from an unexplained a week or so recently) and can often manage all day on just a mug of creamy coffee.

I agree with @tim2000s about calories - I was losing weight until I reached a level where I was obviously eating the right amount to maintain it, and have stayed there mainly because "messing" with reducing calories will begin to upset my nice stable glucose levels.

High fat doesn't have to mean eating lumps of lard - there are plenty of fats and oils in all sorts of food: meat, fish, dairy, nuts, seeds, olives, avocados... most of which are good for you and are the basis of a healthy, well balanced diet. I was lucky enough to have been brought up on a full fat diet, and what I eat now just contains somewhat more fat than previously.

Robbity

PS I'm another one who's happy to recommend Trudy Deakins book - it's simply explained but with quite detailed information, and I think it's an excellent beginners guide to LCHF.

 

[eddie1968]

That's correct, @ickihun mixed insulin contains a combination of both longer (background) and short acting (for food) insulin's, but typically type 2's will be on higher doses of insulin than a type 1's due to insulin resistance.

I'm on 140+ units of mixed insulin and even when eating a less carb diet I feel the high level of insulin resistance has never left me.

 

[KevinPotts]

Is that the same book @KevinPotts is disecting at mo?

This sounds good

The book I am working through is

"Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill" Udo Erasmus, a really educational read to get to grips with nutrition in the way we diabetics want to understand it...detailed and honest


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum

 

[Totto]

I was doing 1650 on myfitness or round about.
Will 80% fat not keep me fat?
I was definitely eating more than 15% protein.
Maybe 70- 80% , 10-15% fat and 10-15% carb or on stricted days 80% protein, 15% fat and 5% carb.
I'm afraid to eat so much fat. What if I have a heart attack!
@Robbity is very good filling her diet with 80% carb but she has trouble satisfying her hunger/palette.
It looks like I might have to try avocado @Kristin251 after all.
@Kristin251 has encouraged my higher fat need and less protein too.
Maybe I need to listen. Sorry.

I will give it all another try as I'd love to get rid of insulin altogether and eventually metformin.
I've never been med free in all time of diagnosis.
I was only on metformin in 2002 no blood pressure tablets either.
I believe blood pressure tablet are due to weight nothing else, hoping anyway.

We are talking about percentages of energy, right? A diet with 80%fat by weight probably would make you fat.

 

[tim2000s]

We are talking about percentages of energy, right? A diet with 80%fat by weight probably would make you fat.

Yes it's talking about calories. Someone who eats 1650 calories a day would obtain 1320 of those from fats if getting 80% of calories from fats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk