Inside Out Programme BBC1 (London) Tonight 7.30PM

[Robinredbreast]

Some people just don't care, you have to remember that. I've been sat in waiting rooms before watching people writing down random fake readings in their little books to show their GP, and then heading over the road and walking straight into Burger King..lol

On the bus into work yesterday( 10 am) a guy who looked a little over weight, was tucking into a bag of crisps and by the aroma I would say a meat variety, I see it all the time, from younger to older people.

 

[tim2000s]

@walnut_face , it's daft really, if you think about it. What Prof ROy Taylor is doing is massively reducing calories with diet. What was shown on the London edition is *EXACTLY THE SAME* but uses surgery instead, to ensure that calorie reduction takes place. Personally I don't understand the medical profession desire to elect surgery over something much cheaper and less damaging for the individual as the first resort!

 

[mist]

@walnut_face , it's daft really, if you think about it. What Prof ROy Taylor is doing is massively reducing calories with diet. What was shown on the London edition is *EXACTLY THE SAME* but uses surgery instead, to ensure that calorie reduction takes place. Personally I don't understand the medical profession desire to elect surgery over something much cheaper and less damaging for the individual as the first resort!

How? Like a stomach reduction or something?

 

[Jay-Marc]

Bariatric surgery has its own potential long-term adverse complications. It still requires a significant degree of diet discipline and if someone's life has revolved around eating it hasn't really attacked the core problem, especially after the initial 'honeymoon' period.

That isn't to say it doesn't have its place for some as the risks need to be balanced. Just not quite the simple universal solution it seems to be portrayed as at the moment for people over a certain weight.

 

[walnut_face]

How? Like a stomach reduction or something?

Prof Roy Taylor's starting point was looking at the impact of Bariatric surgery on patients with Type 2. He noted that in almost all cases the symptoms of diabetes went away. So he set out to mimic the surgery by a very low cal (800) diet

 

[mist]

Prof Roy Taylor's starting point was looking at the impact of Bariatric surgery on patients with Type 2. He noted that in almost all cases the symptoms of diabetes went away. So he set out to mimic the surgery by a very low cal (800) diet

Won't that make a person unwell!

The daily guidelines are 1500 for men and 1000 for women unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Jay-Marc]

It isn't intended as the long term level - just a few weeks long enough to reverse the fatty liver etc as shown on the programme. Starvation diets were used 100+ years ago so hardly a new idea although not yet rigorously tested to modern standards, which is in process.

 

[Indy51]

For those who haven't seen it before, here's one of Prof Taylor's lectures on his research:

http://www.fend-lectures.org/index.php?menu=view&id=94

 

[mist]

For those who haven't seen it before, here's one of Prof Taylor's lectures on his research:

http://www.fend-lectures.org/index.php?menu=view&id=94

I have your profile pic on my wall, in glorious glossy poster form..

 

[Indy51]

I have your profile pic on my wall, in glorious glossy poster form..

In my dreams I can still pretend I look like that

 

[Hiitsme]

It was Prof Roy Taylor's research that gave me some hope when first diagnosed so enjoyed seeing that on the NE version. The London one I had watched live and felt it was so disheartening. I didn't follow the Newcastle diet as my GP had never heard of it but did my own weight loss and I'm sure that was a great help with control..

 

[Scardoc]

@walnut_face , it's daft really, if you think about it. What Prof ROy Taylor is doing is massively reducing calories with diet. What was shown on the London edition is *EXACTLY THE SAME* but uses surgery instead, to ensure that calorie reduction takes place. Personally I don't understand the medical profession desire to elect surgery over something much cheaper and less damaging for the individual as the first resort!

I’m afraid the answer there could lie in the unavoidable truth that sticking to a low calorie diet and shedding the weight requires some serious motivation and will power. Not all humans possess those and would rather the easy option. And from a purse strings point of view, doing the surgery will probably work out more cost effective IF it prevents long term complications from developing.
I’m sure if the medical profession could simply tell each patient to go diet and they came back 6 months later having lost the weight then surgery wouldn’t be a consideration.

 

[walnut_face]

@Scardoc sticking to a low calorie diet based on the eatwell guide probably is nigh on impossible. All the while it is low fat this and low fat that people will still want to eat between meals. I still do sometimes, but it's a handful of almonds no ½ a packet of biscuits
@tim2000s Of course to implement chnages now would cost £500m, Where would the chancellor find that? Easier for him to do nothing (increases his chance or re-election) and leave it for a future chancellor to find many billions instead

 

[ickihun]

Why do these programs focus so much on how much it is costing the NHS? I dont see programs about cancer, or other health issues, focusing on cost in this way. It seems like its unfairly blaming us.

I think its to blame us T2 so people can point to us when they cant get NHS treatment due to cost factors, or their treatment is delayed, instead of pointing to the government cuts. I dont think this vilification and blaming is fair.

I wish them lucky when the damages start coming through for distress and collective claims for defamation. They'll never learn.

 

[ickihun]

@walnut_face , it's daft really, if you think about it.itWhat Prof ROy Taylor is doing is massively reducing calories with diet. What was shown on the London edition is *EXACTLY THE SAME* but uses surgery instead, to ensure that calorie reduction takes place. Personally I don't understand the medical profession desire to elect surgery over something much cheaper and less damaging for the individual as the first resort!

I totally agree. I feel the newcastle diet has been mooted for years for diabetics but taking nhs decades?
I have read that the preparing for bariatric surgery is where the patient loses weight. Can anyone sustain long term 600-800 cals , without it being permanent, KEEP diabetes in remission. In my experience it slowly comes back, weight and diabetic complications. I can vouch for that. Excessive exercise does same things but once older or immobile, weight returns with complications.
I know I need to starve myself again to get a hold of MY diabetes but not in a position to do it myself at mo due to having a complicated emotional life and I need to come 2nd a little while longer. Not forever thou, hoping I won't be too late. With no extended family support. (Not many people have that these days!)
My young family need me with them not living in the gym, walking clubs or anywhere but with them. Toddler doesn't take to anything not THE SAME. If I'm not available for my toddler, who will be? This is not forever. My turn is coming soon. Just hoping I won't be too late.
I have had diabetes decades so newcastle diet doesn't cover diabetics like me. Just bariatric surgery. Humf! Great. Not.

 

[MikeTurin]

@Scardoc sticking to a low calorie diet based on the eatwell guide probably is nigh on impossible. All the while it is low fat this and low fat that people will still want to eat between meals. I still do sometimes, but it's a handful of almonds no ½ a packet of biscuits

I suppose that the eatwell guide has some flaws, if this is true. I think also that a low calorie diet should be tailored to the individual, because everyone has different tastes and needs.
For instance the diet I'm going to re following has a polici of eat starch based food only for breakfast and dinner. For supper eat protein-rich food. You could switch sometimes supper and dinner for proteines and carbs.
The net effect is that I could eat a decent-sized pasta dish and nod a saddening half-portion twice a day. (non to mention that making only 50g of pasta is a methane waste)

 

[bulkbiker]

Won't that make a person unwell!

The daily guidelines are 1500 for men and 1000 for women unless I'm mistaken.

Not in the slightest (except maybe if you are type 1 and carry on injecting your usual amounts of insulin).
I'm still not sure why people don't try fasting rather than 800 cals per day as I'm sure the effect on blood sugar levels would be more beneficial. Maybe we should try and get Prof Taylor and Dr Fung to do some trials and compare results.

 

[bulkbiker]

I’m afraid the answer there could lie in the unavoidable truth that sticking to a low calorie diet and shedding the weight requires some serious motivation and will power. Not all humans possess those and would rather the easy option. And from a purse strings point of view, doing the surgery will probably work out more cost effective IF it prevents long term complications from developing.
I’m sure if the medical profession could simply tell each patient to go diet and they came back 6 months later having lost the weight then surgery wouldn’t be a consideration.

But therein lies the problem. They never give decent dietary advice in my experience. When I was told I was pre-diabetic I was told to "loose some weight" when I was diagnosed with Type 2 - I was given the eatwell plate. Both absolutely useless pieces of advice. As Dr Fung says in the long term we all know that calorie restriction doesn't work but HCP's still "prescribe it" so most are doomed to failure.

 

[tim2000s]

I'm still not sure why people don't try fasting rather than 800 cals per day as I'm sure the effect on blood sugar levels would be more beneficial.

Principally because the aim of the Newcastle diet is to reduce the amount of visceral fat, which take 8 or so week, and I'm not sure fasting for 8 or so weeks is practical....

 

[Oldvatr]

Lots about the forum here though!

Which Forum? There are two. This one (DCUK) and the Diabetes UK forun (DUK) i,e, the other lot. They do not support low carb diets, and are mentioned on all the BBC progs I have watched. But DUK strongly support PHE and the Eatwell plate, and statins too, DUK are also tied in to ASDA who fund some of their activities, especially publicity and in-store promotions (with carb heavy raffles on the stand). DUK are also consulted on gov health matters via PHE and NICE.

I have not seen this Forum mentioned by the Beeb,