Success with moderate calorie diet?

[douglas99]

I have read about doctors who accept low carb is safe and effective - but at my first diabetic advice session I got the 'Eatwell' plate is how to do it, and the 'facts' about Dr Atkins' death - that is from a NHS professional this month.

I'm still more concerned you claim one screamed abuse at you, and you haven't reported them.

 

[Resurgam]

I'm still more concerned you claim one screamed abuse at you, and you haven't reported them.

It was ages ago - I learned to keep quiet about my eating habits. I was threatened with being taken into hospital and 'fed properly' when I was carrying my second baby. I let slip that I had eaten low carb foods all through my first pregnancy. After weekly checkups and instruction to eat carbs I had pre eclampsia - brought on by my foolishness, I was told, despite having been perfectly healthy up until the diet change. That was when I started lying about what I ate, and the baby is now over 30 years old. I think that many medical people are being lied to and so they think that their advice is being followed.

 

[douglas99]

It was ages ago - I learned to keep quiet about my eating habits. I was threatened with being taken into hospital and 'fed properly' when I was carrying my second baby. I let slip that I had eaten low carb foods all through my first pregnancy. After weekly checkups and instruction to eat carbs I had pre eclampsia - brought on by my foolishness, I was told, despite having been perfectly healthy up until the diet change. That was when I started lying about what I ate, and the baby is now over 30 years old. I think that many medical people are being lied to and so they think that their advice is being followed.

If the pre eclampsia was caused by diabetes over 30 years ago, you have done really well since then.

I haven't been type 2 that long, but I have never lied to my HCPs, and I don't know anyone that has, it's been teamwork all the way.
Thing's change over time, so maybe a few decades have been beneficial to us all.

 

[serenity648]

If the pre eclampsia was caused by diabetes over 30 years ago, you have done really well since then.

I haven't been type 2 that long, but I have never lied to my HCPs, and I don't know anyone that has, it's been teamwork all the way.
Thing's change over time, so maybe a few decades have been beneficial to us all.

Or maybe you have been one of the lucky ones who has a supportive group of HCP's.

While I havent been actually shouted at by one, I have been disrespected, talked down, and told off by a fair few over the years, including recently, and treated like a small child, and accused of lying etc etc etc. Please accept that, for some of us, negative experiences from HCP's is an ongoing real thing.

 

[Mbaker]

Do you mean you were diagnosed as having Diabetes with a fasting blood glucose of 134? What is the 80/20 rule?

Hi @SWUSA_ , 134 was my HbA1c - frighteningly super high. The 80 / 20 rule in the context of Type 2's reversing diabetes, means that out of 100, who try 80 might succeed; it is clear due to personal variables not everyone gets a reversed progression, but most seem to get improved control.

 

[douglas99]

Or maybe you have been one of the lucky ones who has a supportive group of HCP's.

While I havent been actually shouted at by one, I have been disrespected, talked down, and told off by a fair few over the years, including recently, and treated like a small child, and accused of lying etc etc etc. Please accept that, for some of us, negative experiences from HCP's is an ongoing real thing.

I do accept that.
That's why I think it is very important to report poor service.
I also realise I'm different, as I can go head to head with scouser dockers, and finish up buying each other beers, rather than fighting.
But I've turned around situations in the NHS, and had great care, but, if I was different, it may easily have gone down a dead end I guess.

(I did have a bit of fun with one, who suggested potatoes, and gave me an amount, I pointed out it wouldn't fit onto my plate, and she said, 'well not all at once'. We agreed to differ, and she passed me on to an excellent colleague)

 

[SWUSA_]

But everyone knows that doing low carb is bad - it killed Dr Atkins, he was overweight and had a heart attack - they know - they are right, people are fat because they are greedy, idle - it is too much to try to fight against what the medical profession and all dieticians think that they know.

Oh, sarcastic-it took me a minute-I just woke up. @Resurgam I support you. If you are doing something that results in good blood glucose ranges for you, them you are doing something right. The original poster really hit a nerve with this question, huh? Sometimes the newbies just ask the right question at the right time to really get us to clarify what's going on with us. @NonStop

 

[hooha]

Yes- I was eating 1200 calories a day for about 6 weeks and had a quick couple of pound weight loss followed with a small gout flare and lack of energy. I went up to 1400 to 1600 calories per day now for about three weeks. You can see a detailed discussion of my diet in the thread "Protein levels". I am at a very slow weight loss of 1 to 2 pounds a month now. My motto is moderation in all things-especially due to several health conditions that impact my diet. My HA1c just went from 7.5 three months a ago when I joined the forum to 7.0 last week. (I am in the USA that would be a change of 58 to 53 if you are in the UK). My couple of pounds of weight loss also puts me back in the overweight range rather than on the lower edge of obese where I have been hovering for several years. I have also posted several days worth of my diet under" Diabetes discussion-Type 2-What have you eaten today?".I added a 10 minute walk after lunch to several days a week after reading an article about it here on the forum.The important thing is to eat to your meter.( Just ask if you do not know what that means.) And limit carbohydrate intake to levels that give you good blood glucose readings. I eat 80 to 120 carbs a day trying to stay on the low end of that range. I never eat more than 40 carbs at one time and always with protein and/ or fat to slow down the spike in blood sugar. I am still on metformin and insulin but we will see what happens as I continue to control my carb intake. (With the exception of a few extra carbs for Christmas of course!)

WHY ARE YOU EATING ALL THES CARBS ? Read or view the story of Dr Troy AND STOP IT ok thanks
[ Stapletonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epsSVosmtUc ]

 

[hooha]

Is it sustainable over the long term? Calorie reduction doesn't work long term therefore carb reduction is better?

i am a type 2 diabetes recently diagnosed - VERY LITTLE support or modern info from my GP - researched and did the 800 Newcastle diet ON MY OWN. Was very surprised to see the OPTIFAST sachets that Prof Taylor used had SUGAR in them.
I bought the Optifast things online but never used them. 800 Cals per day was EASY once you cut out the heavy carbs.JUST go for lots of eggs, meat, salads and veggies, fish, oils etc and NO CHIPS POTATOES RICE etc etc..NOT HARD TO DO when you have done the adaptation period of about one to two weeks. HAD to force myself to eat ,when my weight was down by 12-13 kg , my FBS was ok at 60, or 80 0r even 100. and if I had not eaten I might have needed a midnight snack,
so thr diet once you get going is EASY no medical fees for most folks.

 

[hooha]

i am a type 2 diabetes recently diagnosed - VERY LITTLE support or modern info from my GP - researched and did the 800 Newcastle diet ON MY OWN. Was very surprised to see the OPTIFAST sachets that Prof Taylor used had SUGAR in them.
I bought the Optifast things online but never used them. 800 Cals per day was EASY once you cut out the heavy carbs.JUST go for lots of eggs, meat, salads and veggies, fish, oils etc and NO CHIPS POTATOES RICE etc etc..NOT HARD TO DO when you have done the adaptation period of about one to two weeks. HAD to force myself to eat ,when my weight was down by 12-13 kg , my FBS was ok at 60, or 80 0r even 100. and if I had not eaten I might have needed a midnight snack,
so thr diet once you get going is EASY no medical fees for most folks.

CONTINUED :
OK low calorie may not be sustainable unless you want to waste away - but low carbs is sustainable - check out the 5: 2 diet and keep in mind your total calories while you are tucking into those cakes and potatoes . I found after adapting I did not even want those cakes, cookies, biscuits, spuds, chips or french fries, rice : big plate of mixed vegetables satisfied me.

 

[hooha]

CONTINUED :
OK low calorie may not be sustainable unless you want to waste away - but low carbs is sustainable - check out the 5: 2 diet and keep in mind your total calories while you are tucking into those cakes and potatoes . I found after adapting I did not even want those cakes, cookies, biscuits, spuds, chips or french fries, rice : big plate of mixed vegetables satisfied me.

 

[NonStop]

Interesting debates here. I'm going to give a moderate calorie diet a try, particularly as I;m not type 2 diabetic, I just have pre-diabetes. Based on what the researchers say as long as the same necessary amount of fat loss is reached it should work. if it still doesn't I'll try the original low-calorie diet. If after that, I'll try low-carb.

Like others have pointed out, the beauty of beating diabetes with a low-calorie diet is that the diet is less restrictive, which is a bigger draw for me. I also agree with others that low-carb can work by reducing calorie intake, but other than that the low-carb diet does control diabetes, but doesn't allow one to reverse diabetes completely and be able to start eating carbs again.

 

[SWUSA_]

WHY ARE YOU EATING ALL THES CARBS ? Read or view the story of Dr Troy AND STOP IT ok thanks
[ Stapletonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epsSVosmtUc ]

Excuse me-did I ask for advice?! My blood glucose is doing very well thanks. You may be new to the forum but we are not rude to one another here. We are accepting of others choices and supportive, not dictatorial.

 

[SWUSA_]

Interesting debates here. I'm going to give a moderate calorie diet a try, particularly as I;m not type 2 diabetic, I just have pre-diabetes. Based on what the researchers say as long as the same necessary amount of fat loss is reached it should work. if it still doesn't I'll try the original low-calorie diet. If after that, I'll try low-carb.

Like others have pointed out, the beauty of beating diabetes with a low-calorie diet is that the diet is less restrictive, which is a bigger draw for me. I also agree with others that low-carb can work by reducing calorie intake, but other than that the low-carb diet does control diabetes, but doesn't allow one to reverse diabetes completely and be able to start eating carbs again.

And that's just the way to take the forum-read a lot, ask questions, and accept the part that works for you.Try it and modify if you do not get the results you want. And have fun!

 

[CherryAA]

Interesting debates here. I'm going to give a moderate calorie diet a try, particularly as I;m not type 2 diabetic, I just have pre-diabetes. Based on what the researchers say as long as the same necessary amount of fat loss is reached it should work. if it still doesn't I'll try the original low-calorie diet. If after that, I'll try low-carb.

Like others have pointed out, the beauty of beating diabetes with a low-calorie diet is that the diet is less restrictive, which is a bigger draw for me. I also agree with others that low-carb can work by reducing calorie intake, but other than that the low-carb diet does control diabetes, but doesn't allow one to reverse diabetes completely and be able to start eating carbs again.

I have tried both low calorie and low carb diets. In practice at the moment I am using a calorie restricted LCHF diet- ie I eat about 1300 calories with an emphasis on low carb, moderate protein and high natural fat Whilst is might seem more restrictive than other diets involving giving up on all processed foods, in practice it has been the most successful diet I have ever done and the tastiest with a seeming richness of food that I have never experienced before and without feeling hungry as well. My readings has gone into the prediabetes range without medication and I still have another 25 kilos to lose !

I am not sure on what basis you are saying that a low-carb diet does not allow one to reverse diabetes completely but a low calorie diet does. Given what I know now, I think that once I get to the desired weight range, I will be able to include the odd carbohydrate treat in my diet and still be able to control my blood sugar. I think that would be exactly the same after a low calorie diet too. Once a diabetic it is highly likely that one would need to be " careful" about the level of carbs and particularly sugar in a diet - but that is probably true of everyone on the planet! If you look at my post " analysing xmas" , you will see how average blood sugars accumulate over a few days of " less healthy " eating and that they can be reversed as quickly at least for me - though I suspect I am a fairly typical type 2 diabetic on this forum.

 

[douglas99]

1300 calories a day is a low calorie diet.

 

[CherryAA]

1300 calories a day is a low calorie diet.

1300 calories is a pretty typical diet for a woman , very few women can get away with a diet much over 1500 calories a day and still lose noticeable weight. When one sets a goal of around 1300, there is also a inbuilt - spare small amount to deal with those days when will power fails ( not that willpower is all that necessary on an LCHF method)

The equivalent for most guys would probably be closer to 1800. My comment came after a discussion about the Newcastle Diet of 800 calories which is a very low calorie diet especially for a guy.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@CherryAA

That is exactly how I did it until all my excess weight had melted, then I increased my calories to maintain my new weight. The only difference between your diet and my initial one is that I ate normal protein, not moderate. I counted calories, carbs, fats and proteins religiously, keeping calories to around 1200 and reducing carbs gradually until arriving at 30g a day.

 

[douglas99]

1300 calories is a pretty typical diet for a woman , very few women can get away with a diet much over 1500 calories a day and still lose noticeable weight. When one sets a goal of around 1300, there is also a inbuilt - spare small amount to deal with those days when will power fails ( not that willpower is all that necessary on an LCHF method)

The equivalent for most guys would probably be closer to 1800. My comment came after a discussion about the Newcastle Diet of 800 calories which is a very low calorie diet especially for a guy.

I agree entirely with you.
1300 calories a day is indeed a typical calorie restricted diet for weight loss, exactly as the 1800 for men is.

I did both the moderate calorie diet as you are doing and then finished with the Newcastle diet.
As you say, counting calories is key, as I had a different mix of food though, as I targeted diabetes reversal with the Newcastle diet at the end, although it did seem to be going well before then, it was definitely the Newcastle diet that was the key for me.

 

[CherryAA]

I am not sure exactly what the Newcastle Diet actually does for " reversal" compared to Low carb- isnt the point that the Newcastle diet by definition restricts the carbs to the same as a low carb iet because a "Mixed" balanced diet of only 800 calories has to be low carb anyway what else do you gain by the more severe restriction?