I agree that's why I am doing this 3 months before my annual tests are due. 3 months of a diet should be long enough to show if it is right or wrong for me without doing too much harm in the meantime. The excess weight is harming me and I want it gone.
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CherryAA
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If it were me - I would be looking to establish a base line now - being what they were on the LCHF diet, and then again in 3 months time being what they are on the new diet ,. From my own experience with blood tests every three months, I can see the actual effect of that specific diet in the results ( eg I increased saturated fats in order to increase HDL and sure enough it did ) I'm not sure what a test in 3 months will tell you without the base point ? - even if the results are acceptable, you won't know if that is part of a positive or negative trend unless you know where you began, so if it seems to be working but the trend is actually negative you won't find out until after it all gone wrong on the test a year later.
I was rather sceptical of LCHF initially , because I was worried about the impact on everything else , As it happened an accident after 2 months meant I ended up having a new blood profile done after only two months into the diet. It was the improvement in all of the markers then that gave me the courage to continue.
I am fairly clear that I know why the LCHF isn't also resulting in losing weight at the moment, - its because all too regularly my day has included eating just that bit more that I used to . It is incredibly hard to continue recording big deficits in calories as needed to actually lose weight no matter which kind of diet is followed, that's why most diets also regress over time - again regardless of what kind of diet.
Did you record every morsel you do it on your current diet before the switch ? again for me , its all too easy to eat way too much as opposed to the diet itself being wrong. ( I do find nuts is my big downfall) . I would be very interested to know what kind of calorie intake you have been trying to use previously on the LCHF method to lose weight, and how that compares with your proposed calorie intake on a high carb diet.i.e. are you proposing to stick to similar energy input parameters ?
S
serenity648
Guest
I only get one set of blood tests a year : (
I have found that, regardless of how few calories I eat, the carbs immediately go into fat storage. I know this because i did some weeks with up to 100g carbs - no weight loss, and some weeks with fewer carbs and have now lost 4lbs. My calorie amount has stayed the same, and so have my sugar levels (making adjustment for this infection)
I have found that, regardless of how few calories I eat, the carbs immediately go into fat storage. I know this because i did some weeks with up to 100g carbs - no weight loss, and some weeks with fewer carbs and have now lost 4lbs. My calorie amount has stayed the same, and so have my sugar levels (making adjustment for this infection)
I only get blood tests once a year. It isn't you, it's me. I am happy without a baseline and don't intend to pay for unnecessary tests. I will know if it works if I lose weight. I have scales for that. I did say earlier on that this wouldn't be scientific. Science has messed up my body for 40 years, I don't care too much for it tbh. Science says aspartame isn't harmful; my body says otherwise. If it works for zand then that's all the science I need.
Yes I recorded every morsel for a while, though not always. Whenever I was really concentrating on trying to lose weight I recorded absolutely everything. There have been times when I didn't because of illness or depression. Who said anything about needing big deficits to lose weight? That's the thinking that got me to be so fat in the first place. If you are clear why LCHF isn't working for you then fix it. I am clear that it isn't working for me because it does nothing to help existing IR.
I get it, you don't want to do HCLF, so don't. I'm not trying to convert anyone. I just want to lose weight. I'm not even a vegetarian, I'm just going to try it for 3 months, I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about. I only posted to say thanks to @AliB for prompting me to try something new, I had been pondering what to do for a few weeks, I read what she had said and it made sense. If it doesn't work it doesn't work but at least I will have tried.
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B
badcat
Guest
Any test is scientific, even if the sample size is 1 ( i.e. Just ourselves) - in many ways that is the most important kind of science for the questions we are seeking inidividual answers to
That having been said, the scientific method of making a hypothesis and then testing it out by measuring important variables is something I would see as vital to any such endeavour.
If say your hypothesis was ' changing to this way of eating will / may allow me to lose weight without causing an unacceptable change in my diabetic control" Then the 2 variables to monitor would be a) weight and b) blood sugars - when you have that data then you can make your own assesment about how much the hypothesis is / is not supported
That having been said, the scientific method of making a hypothesis and then testing it out by measuring important variables is something I would see as vital to any such endeavour.
If say your hypothesis was ' changing to this way of eating will / may allow me to lose weight without causing an unacceptable change in my diabetic control" Then the 2 variables to monitor would be a) weight and b) blood sugars - when you have that data then you can make your own assesment about how much the hypothesis is / is not supported
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Yep! Exactly that. Thank you for understanding.
CherryAA
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I think maybe you misunderstood my point. I am not trying to discourage you from trying it. I hope you are successful. I will be very interested to see the result and indeed if it does transpire that eating a very high carb diet (with limited proteins and limited fats and I assume eating to satiety? ) works as well/ better for blood sugar , insulin resistance and weight loss for you at this stage in your journey than does the reverse then I for one will be interested to try it myself at some time in the future. We all have this thing for life, so if there is indeed the possibility that one could have a complete change of diet for a while and remain in control of blood sugars then that would be very exiting news.
Had you been doing blood tests, that also confirmed it wasn't detrimental to your other health markers then I think those would have been fascinating in your n=1 experiment but obviously that's a personal choice thing.
I have not seen any research that suggests that significant weight loss will occur in the absence of a significant calorie deficit for any type of diet including or excluding carbohydrates. All I have seen is that someone eating LCHF to satiety will probably eat fewer calories than those on other types of diets - though we are all different and for me clearly my appetite is still too big for this to work without actually also counting the calories. If I'm missing something on that research then no doubt someone will point me in the right direction.
Good luck with your efforts.
Had you been doing blood tests, that also confirmed it wasn't detrimental to your other health markers then I think those would have been fascinating in your n=1 experiment but obviously that's a personal choice thing.
I have not seen any research that suggests that significant weight loss will occur in the absence of a significant calorie deficit for any type of diet including or excluding carbohydrates. All I have seen is that someone eating LCHF to satiety will probably eat fewer calories than those on other types of diets - though we are all different and for me clearly my appetite is still too big for this to work without actually also counting the calories. If I'm missing something on that research then no doubt someone will point me in the right direction.
Good luck with your efforts.
I expect if I am successful you will assume that I have simply been more careful with my calories ie a kind of placebo effect.
I am learning from experience that drastically cutting my calorie intake simply slows down my metabolism. I don't want weight loss at the expense of being able to burn less calories in the future. The metabolism is a furnace:you need to put fuel on it to make it work. If I had known that 40 years ago I wouldn't be here on this forum now. I doubt you will find the research, the diet industry is far too lucrative to allow such research to be published.
S
serenity648
Guest
I havent seen any research either, but I know that, for me, the type of calories affects my weight. I can eat 1500 cals with very few of them being carbs and lose weight. I can eat under 1200 cals with more of them being carbs and gain weight. Its as if my body grabs all the carbs and puts them into fat storage right away,instead of using any of them.
Its a good job we are all different, and all willing to share our individual experiences, isnt it. It gives us all more ideas and things to try.
This is an interesting article, quoting a Harvard study, where people changed the proportion of various foods in their diet, not the overall calories taken in http://www.livestrong.com/article/186316-food-that-makes-you-fat-fast/
CherryAA
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I expect if I am successful you will assume that I have simply been more careful with my calories ie a kind of placebo effect.
I am learning from experience that drastically cutting my calorie intake simply slows down my metabolism. I don't want weight loss at the expense of being able to burn less calories in the future. The metabolism is a furnace:you need to put fuel on it to make it work. If I had known that 40 years ago I wouldn't be here on this forum now. I doubt you will find the research, the diet industry is far too lucrative to allow such research to be published.
ha ha - well isn't that the way it works? anyone who achieve anything is assumed to be " cheating" in some fashion. That's kinda why the establishment dismisses all of our N=1 experiments and can then tell us what it would like us to hear.
I like you have metabolism issues - not least it appears from my research that my current " energy" usage - i.e. blood sugar 3.9 plus ketones 0.5) plus me at the extreme end of " efficient fuel" burners. It would not surprise me in the least to discover that is that very " efficiency" which now makes it very hard to lose weight but which was brought about is a result of my previous dietary habits - which were essentially calorie limited and controlled high carb, low fat but real food diets. ( i.e. about 60-70% carbs the balance fats and proteins and veering towards vegetarian ism- think vegetable curry with beansprouts). It is also true that when I cheated on those days sufficient to not lose weight - my cheating would take the form of - VERY large and repeated portions of vegetable curry with beansprouts - I rarely suddenly started eating Twinkies.
I am well aware that a half -hearted approach to LCHF - i.e. high fat plus a few carbs here and there - can be a disaster. and can lead to rapid weight regain and for me when I do, then my blood sugar promptly shoots up as well.
For me personally a high carb low fat diet - did work to lose weight - I have done that before and it works reliably when I keep it up- but it also gave me very high blood sugars ( this was the situation at diagnosis - already in nutritional ketosis already having lost 5 kilos, but blood sugar of 18).
You are trying to prove the opposite works for you i.e. you will both lose weight and keep control of your blood sugars by eating very high carb but not controlling calories.
The thing I am thus intrigued about - is this. Is there some extreme of HCLF ( just like LCHF is extreme in the opposite direction ) where with few enough of fats and proteins the high carb. low fat diet actually has different consequences than the traditional calories controlled high carb, low fat diet for a diabetic and - if so how extreme does it need to be. That is what you are about to test and why I am interested .
The other part of that is that increasing carbohydrate content appears to increase triglyciderides - which there appears to be consensus is not something to shoot for - hence my interests in if you are monitoring blood lipid profiles as a result. if in fact an extreme HCLF diet not only keeps blood sugar down, but also prevents triglycericdes accumulating in the blood (which I assume it should do if in fact its a workable solution) then clearly you would be onto something !
If you do find that you can bring your weight down with your approach and keep the blood sugars under control and it seems do this without a calorie deficit - then I will be very interested to follow in your footsteps and give the experiment a go - including the blood tests before and after.
I will be very interested to hear about what happens during the transition .i.e. is there a period when because of the previous LCHF diet, you find that initially you get very high blood sugar which you have to keep your nerve to " live through" until your metabolism has switched fully back to carb. burning mode . I will also be interested to hear any reports of just how much food you can actually eat whilst the weight is coming off. i.e. does your metabolism start to speed up and if so how quickly.
good luck with your experiment.
It's a good experiment, Zand. Good luck with it.
I went from 16 stone to 12 stone after being diagnosed, and keeping track of what I was eating before, after and during dieting etc was the most instructive thing I went through in learning about diabetes- please let us know what your findings are
I went from 16 stone to 12 stone after being diagnosed, and keeping track of what I was eating before, after and during dieting etc was the most instructive thing I went through in learning about diabetes- please let us know what your findings are
Yes I believe there might be.
I think trigs may go up initially, if they do I will pay for a private test 3 months after my NHS one (if I decide to continue with the diet) .
These are good points which I hadn't thought about (because I was just doing the experiment for myself) I'll try to keep notes so that others can see what happens to me in the transition stage if they want to know.
Thanks
Dodo
Well-Known Member
As a Type 1 I know very little about Type 2 diets and medication, so would never presume to offer advice. Having said that, my partner was diagnosed as pre diabetic three years ago and asked my advice re food. He then adopted the low carb diet and admits he doesn't feel that he is missing out at all. He is now nearly 3 stone lighter and has a hba1c of 35. Needless to say he is very pleased with himself and quite rightly too.
Mbaker
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My experience is that with higher carb I did loose 10 kgs and just got non diabetic numbers, but I had to train 2 to 3 times a day to achieve this (i.e high metabolism). Switching to LCHF improved my HbA1c from 41 / 42 to 35, switching again to heavy weights and less cardio produced a HbA1c of 36, increased muscle weight (3, kgs confirmed by 3 different scales) and lower by around 0.5 fasting blood glucose. So for me the optimum protocol is LCHF, with intense short duration weights and short HiiT cardio.
I would be wary of high carb protocols as my research has increasingly shown sports people getting higher blood glucose levels than expected. I remember a video on GUT microbs where a young male gymnast in his early 20's on high carb was nearly diabetic and had double the amount of insulin requirement to control the same high carb meal as another non sports male double his age; in addition cases of elite cyclists on high carbs with pre diabetic levels of blood glucose.
Judging by the visual evidence we see each day in the size of almost all populations and knowing it is mainly carbs which translate to the fat we see on individuals, coupled with soaring Type 2 and pre diabetes, I think we can draw reasonable conclusions about the viability of carbs (aside from those circa 5 to 10 g / 100g).
I would suggest a protocol where possible which burns fat for free after some effort to boast the metabolic rate, oupled with more sleep to get the process going. This also tends to have a positive impact on trigs also.
I would be wary of high carb protocols as my research has increasingly shown sports people getting higher blood glucose levels than expected. I remember a video on GUT microbs where a young male gymnast in his early 20's on high carb was nearly diabetic and had double the amount of insulin requirement to control the same high carb meal as another non sports male double his age; in addition cases of elite cyclists on high carbs with pre diabetic levels of blood glucose.
Judging by the visual evidence we see each day in the size of almost all populations and knowing it is mainly carbs which translate to the fat we see on individuals, coupled with soaring Type 2 and pre diabetes, I think we can draw reasonable conclusions about the viability of carbs (aside from those circa 5 to 10 g / 100g).
I would suggest a protocol where possible which burns fat for free after some effort to boast the metabolic rate, oupled with more sleep to get the process going. This also tends to have a positive impact on trigs also.
ickihun
Master
Hope you are well @zand .
I'm finding by putting my bgs in 4, 5 or low 6s. No matter how (whatever diet) i lose weight.
Nothing else.
In the past I averaged 6s. and maintained my weight at 18stones.
I'm finding a fine light between hypo range and excellent range for weight loss for me.
Thinking back did you lose on lchf because of excellent bgs?
I'm finding by putting my bgs in 4, 5 or low 6s. No matter how (whatever diet) i lose weight.
Nothing else.
In the past I averaged 6s. and maintained my weight at 18stones.
I'm finding a fine light between hypo range and excellent range for weight loss for me.
Thinking back did you lose on lchf because of excellent bgs?
JTL
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I'm sure there's more.
High fat low carb should be renamed normal fat low carb.
You're not supposed to sit there eating loads of fat!
Just eat at the level before factories and chemical companies took over our food supply.
No low fat no fat semi skimmed products.
Lots of butter and cream and full fat milk.
Fried and roast spuds and so on.
All this talk of activity being essential .... it isn't.
I'm mostly inactive and using a wheelchair not by choice.
I used to be a nones stop[ very fit and active bloke but no longer due to spinal problems.
I manage to lose weight though at the moment I'm back to seventeen stone again.
Ayt 6' 2" that isn't to bad.
My aim is to stay around 15 st.
You're not supposed to sit there eating loads of fat!
Just eat at the level before factories and chemical companies took over our food supply.
No low fat no fat semi skimmed products.
Lots of butter and cream and full fat milk.
Fried and roast spuds and so on.
All this talk of activity being essential .... it isn't.
I'm mostly inactive and using a wheelchair not by choice.
I used to be a nones stop[ very fit and active bloke but no longer due to spinal problems.
I manage to lose weight though at the moment I'm back to seventeen stone again.
Ayt 6' 2" that isn't to bad.
My aim is to stay around 15 st.
BrianTheElder
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Surely we want posters to tell us all what their diet and experience is. If you don't agree, move on to another post or reply to it. Personally I find it all fascinating and informative to learn how others cope with the many problems.
I do feel there is a case however for letting newbies settle in before drowning them with information. Perhaps the newbies posts could be held in suspense while the moderators greet them or have a greeting committee?
charliebarker
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As long as we are free to call you 'boy' then it's fine !Where I live it is a word commonly used to describe any female. I use it daily.
