Current NHS dietary advice for diabetes.....

[VMK]

It took this forum to steer me away from the advice currently being given to diabetics by the NHS. Attached is from page 6 of the booklet I received...........

 

[EllieM]

Yes, that's pretty depressing, particularly the emphasis on grains....

 

[bulkbiker]

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It took this forum to steer me away from the advice currently being given to diabetics by the NHS. Attached is from page 6 of the booklet I received...........

That little lot certainly wouldn't move you towards remission...sad but the state of play for many these days.

 

[Marie 2]

This eating plan worked on my husband! Although he's a vegetarian, so a little bit of difference there. He does take Metformin, lost weight, eats more veggies as snacks, salads etc and less junk. But he still eats whole wheat bread, whole grains, whole wheat pastas etc. Metformin doesn't work for everyone, it just blocks what your liver is making. But when it does, it works great! He is still losing weight and probably will stay on Metformin because he still likes to eat some junk food. Everyone can vary what works for them. But his A1C was 44 last check.

 

[bulkbiker]

But his A1C was 44 last check.

So with medication your husband is still pre diabetic but you claim that the dietary advice "works"?
Interesting..

 

[CatManRob]

If you think that's bad, you should see the suggested diet handed out wheen diagnosed by your doctor, labelled "Living with Type 2 Diabetes" in partnership with the NHS.

One of the suggestions is a "slice of white bread with jam". Now I hate to point this out, but whoever added this to the suggested diet clearly has no idea which foods would raise an insulin spike.

What everybody shuld be aware of is that qualified doctors (GP's) do not study nutrition during their education as a medical professional, so the last person you should ask for advice on dietary advice is your doctor.

You should consult a qualified nutritionist, but be aware that they are obliged to advise you according to the accepted policies, such as recommending eggs, which you certainly should avoid & red meat. In short, they are forced by their governing body to 'suggest' a diet that is influenced by lobbying groups and it's not necessarily in the interests of the public.

A typical example is the lobbying of the cattle industry in the US, which succeeded in blocking a trial of a plant-based diet on Texas, only for the organisation to take it to another state and fund it themselves. The results spoke for themselves and were taken back to the original state.

Another good example is the practice of using Chlorine to bleach chicken! Not exactly in the consumer interest, but it's a cheap way of getting rid of the excrement sprayed everywhere during the slaughtering process.

I've replaced my animal protein with beans, peas and lentils and as a result, don't consume antibiotics & growth hormones that are routinely given to livestock before they appear at the supermarket.

Personally, I'm trying a veggie higher fat diet, with zero processed foods, using intermittent fasting to improve my insulin resistance. So it's sort of ketogenic, but not full of animal product. I basically eat one meal a day to help my insulin resistance calm down, while bringing down my A1C below 48mmol/L.

Unlike practically every 'diet' on the market, this type has had zero large or small scale trials, so I'm compiling data and blood test data on monthly data myself, which is somewhat frustrating as I'm doing it alone!

Priority #1 A1C which I'm level expecting to be about 43 by 18th September (48 MMOL/MOL is the cut-off point for diagnosing Diabetes)

Then there's the following to provide more baseline data:
Framming Test: Score Required (indicates likelyhood of heart attack risk) Scores range from 0-1000. If you are above 600 you are in big trouble.
CAC Test: Scan required to measure calcium in the arteries.
HOM-IR Test: Fasting Glucose Level / Insulin Level = Score Example 95/1.0 with A1c @ 5.1
Test required for PCSK9 to see if liver receptors are working (Thus high LDL levels in my case.)

The HOM-IR test is particularly useful in determining in working out if your blood sugar is specifically the problem, or if your insulin resistance is the real issue in identifying progress with dealing with your condition.

Short version is you have to take a level of responsibility to educate yourself, because what with vested interests, lobbying, and shall we say dishonest government institutions, our health is our priority and not industries.

But when I read the official diet guidelines that were recommended in the material given to me in my GP office, it was only then that it's very easy to see why people with diabetes are not treated properly. It's ridiculous.

 

[Marie 2]

Yes, considering it is down from over a 75 at the beginning and has been coming down steadily. I think his last test was actually lower, I have to look it up in his chart. He wore my leftover Libras off and on and that really helped him.

But considering he literally still eats some junk every day, plus he eats bread every day etc , he’s losing weight, he’s doing well. He doesn’t want to give up his junk food. And since he keeps improving , he doesn’t need to.

 

[kokhongw]

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It took this forum to steer me away from the advice currently being given to diabetics by the NHS. Attached is from page 6 of the booklet I received...........

These are advice given by big food and pharma... the stakeholders with decades of influence...

 

[jpscloud]

@CatManRob - can you elaborate on why eggs should be avoided?

Edit - and red meat?

Just a comment on chlorinated chicken also - we do have chlorinated water here in the uk, so while I'm not sure about concentrations, we certainly could view the hype as more political than health oriented.

 

[wiflib]

@CatManRob I'm carnivore with an HbA1c of 27 so why should I not be eating meat and eggs? Peas beans and lentils would put me firmly in the diabetic range, make me ill, hungry and fat (and many other T2’s).

 

[Flora123]

@CatManRob - can you elaborate on why eggs should be avoided?

Edit - and red meat?

Just a comment on chlorinated chicken also - we do have chlorinated water here in the uk, so while I'm not sure about concentrations, we certainly could view the hype as more political than health oriented.

I think CatManRib meant in the case of a nutritionist recommending eggs they can’t as “eggs and red meat should be avoided”. Ie, that’s what they say and are taught to tell patients. Hope that makes sense!

 

[bulkbiker]

I think CatManRib meant in the case of a nutritionist recommending eggs they can’t as “eggs and red meat should be avoided”. Ie, that’s what they say and are taught to tell patients. Hope that makes sense!

I think more like @CatManRob is suggesting that red meat and eggs are contributing factors to T2 as per La Greger

which succeeded in blocking a trial of a plant-based diet on Texas,

Personally, I'm trying a veggie higher fat diet,

 

[ianf0ster]

@CatManRob - can you elaborate on why eggs should be avoided?

Edit - and red meat?

Just a comment on chlorinated chicken also - we do have chlorinated water here in the uk, so while I'm not sure about concentrations, we certainly could view the hype as more political than health oriented.

Hi jpscloud,
I would just like to clarify that it isn't the actual chlorination of US chicken that is considered to be the problem,
It is the lax standards and poor processing hygiene that makes the chlorination necessary.
Also a University study has shown that Chlorination doesn't actually kill all the nasty bugs (I forget which ones for the moment), but just suppresses them so that they aren't found in any subsequent tests and later start to multiply again.

If you want to take that risk - you are welcome!

 

[jpscloud]

Hi jpscloud,
I would just like to clarify that it isn't the actual chlorination of US chicken that is considered to be the problem,
It is the lax standards and poor processing hygiene that makes the chlorination necessary.
Also a University study has shown that Chlorination doesn't actually kill all the nasty bugs (I forget which ones for the moment), but just suppresses them so that they aren't found in any subsequent tests and later start to multiply again.

If you want to take that risk - you are welcome!

Ah thank you - poor standards are widespread here too, though.

 

[ianf0ster]

I've replaced my animal protein with beans, peas and lentils and as a result, don't consume antibiotics & growth hormones that are routinely given to livestock before they appear at the supermarket.

Personally, I'm trying a veggie higher fat diet, with zero processed foods, using intermittent fasting to improve my insulin resistance. So it's sort of ketogenic, but not full of animal product. I basically eat one meal a day to help my insulin resistance calm down, while bringing down my A1C below 48mmol/L.

I agree that too many antibiotics are still used in meat production, but Growth Hormone is banned in the UK ( and the EU) - so that isn't a problem.
Also the antibiotic use in the UK is much lower than in the USA and certainly much lower than it used to be since for example Poultry farmers in the UK are controlling Salmonella via hygiene methods rather than antibiotics and chlorine washes .

Of course Dr Gerber is talking purely from a US perspective and is hardly unbiased due to his employer. Any T2 Diabetic who can eat a diet with much legumes or whole grains should consider themselves lucky, because I can't even tolerate Carrots and/or Onions!

 

[Robbity]

I think more like @CatManRob is suggesting that red meat and eggs are contributing factors to T2 as per La Greger

The only meat my mother would eat all her life was beef and lamb - she lived to her mid 90s and rarely saw a doctor.

Robbity

 

[Member496333]

@CatManRob I'm carnivore with an HbA1c of 27 so why should I not be eating meat and eggs? Peas beans and lentils would put me firmly in the diabetic range, make me ill, hungry and fat (and many other T2’s).

But. Yeah but. Saturated fat. Cholesterol. Heart disease. Global warming blah blah blah

 

[bulkbiker]

The only meat my mother would eat all her life was beef and lamb - she lived to her mid 90s and rarely saw a doctor.

Robbity

Wot no bacon! Poor thing..

 

[lucylocket61]

This eating plan worked on my husband! Although he's a vegetarian, so a little bit of difference there. He does take Metformin, lost weight, eats more veggies as snacks, salads etc and less junk. But he still eats whole wheat bread, whole grains, whole wheat pastas etc. Metformin doesn't work for everyone, it just blocks what your liver is making. But when it does, it works great! He is still losing weight and probably will stay on Metformin because he still likes to eat some junk food. Everyone can vary what works for them. But his A1C was 44 last check.

I am glad it worked for your husband, but as a blanket statement of recommendation for all, the eatwell plate does not work. Tailored dietary ideas and teaching an understanding of the relationship between all sugars and insulin and blood sugar levels is important.

 

[Member496333]

The Eatwell plate gave me diabetes.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Until I was diagnosed and given an NHS booklet I had never heard of the Eatwell Plate. Maybe those who were obese had it recommended but I often see comments on here which make it seem like everyone has had it forced on them.