Potatoes.....confused!

[Rob190364]

After three years of having type 2, I finally pulled my finger out in October and started being strict, very low carb diet and regular moderate exercise (1 hour fairly fast walk with the dogs, most days). I've not had sugar, potatoes, rice, pasta etc. for 3 months.....I was having cereal and Ryvita thinking that was ok due to it being high in fibre, even so I was still struggling to get my glucose down, it's only since cutting those out as well that I've really managed to get it under control. I've lost 10kg and managed to get my blood sugar down to approximately 6.2mmol/l after exercise, but struggle to get it any lower than that. The strange thing is, in the last couple of weeks I've started including 3 or 4 roast potatoes with my Sunday dinner and on both days in the evening (after exercise) I've recorded blood sugar of 5.8mmol/l. Why am I managing to get it lower on the days when I eat a few potatoes, and yet when on the days when I eat virtually no carbs I can't get it below 6. I know it's only small differences but it's a bit confusing! Should I be including a few carbs? i just assumed the less carbs the better!

 

[Lamont D]

Probably, when you were first diagnosed, you're insulin resistance would have an effect, if you were on diabetic meds, that would also be a part of your reasons why your blood levels have come down.
Due to a healthy diet, you have control and because you are mostly in non diabetic levels, your insulin resistance and your insulin response is now having a positive effect with carbs.
Your insulin response has become near normal.
So, you can have the odd treat, but you still need to keep an eye on your blood levels.
Hope this helps.

Keep safe

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I would be thankful that you can eat some potatoes without penalty!
However I assume that you have checked that you are not getting a massive spike from the potatoes before your BG comes down again?

I sometimes find that a bit of extra carbohydrate can send my BG sky high but the rebound then takes my BG a bit lower than usual.

Not necessarily a good thing if the spike is big.

 

[Rob190364]

Probably, when you were first diagnosed, you're insulin resistance would have an effect, if you were on diabetic meds, that would also be a part of your reasons why your blood levels have come down.
Due to a healthy diet, you have control and because you are mostly in non diabetic levels, your insulin resistance and your insulin response is now having a positive effect with carbs.
Your insulin response has become near normal.
So, you can have the odd treat, but you still need to keep an eye on your blood levels.
Hope this helps.

Keep safe

Thanks for the reply. I've been on 1500mg Metformin for around a year or so, the biggest difference I've noticed is the month since I've cut cereal and Riveta. As I'm sure many do, when I first got diagnosed I was ultra strict and brought my levels right down, only to let it slip shortly after and bounce back up to the levels I was when I was first diagnosed. It sounds like a bit of a cliche, but it really is a lifestyle change. I've just accepted the fact that I'll never be able eat as I used to do, but that's a good thing. I feel much better since losing weight, and have got to the point where I don't even miss the junk food. The only thing I'm struggling with now as the lack of variation in my diet, it would definitely be a good thing if I could introduce a few normal things back into my diet!!

 

[Rob190364]

I would be thankful that you can eat some potatoes without penalty!
However I assume that you have checked that you are not getting a massive spike from the potatoes before your BG comes down again?

I sometimes find that a bit of extra carbohydrate can send my BG sky high but the rebound then takes my BG a bit lower than usual.

Not necessarily a good thing if the spike is big.

Thanks for that, that's a good point actually. Next time I have them I might check my levels every half an hour afterward to see if there is a big spike. Even if it doesn't, I don't think I'll ever go back to eating them most days, but it's nice to be able to have a few once a week. Sunday dinners are truly lame without roasties!!!!

 

[Andydragon]

Thanks for that, that's a good point actually. Next time I have them I might check my levels every half an hour afterward to see if there is a big spike. Even if it doesn't, I don't think I'll ever go back to eating them most days, but it's nice to be able to have a few once a week. Sunday dinners are truly lame without roasties!!!!

When I have potatoes, as chips, the levels go higher and stay higher for longer, well into the next day unfortunately. But all that said, how many potatoes do you have? It’s always possible it’s down to it being a small number of carbs comparatively that your body can handle better with your reduced weight and improved health

I also am not perfect carb wise, personally, I can have a reasonable amount of about 150 during the day and don’t spike but if I splurge in a one off (like the fish and chips) then it lasts for a long time so I need to be very wary and make it a treat

I also know treats can easily become daily so it’s hard

 

[Rob190364]

When I have potatoes, as chips, the levels go higher and stay higher for longer, well into the next day unfortunately. But all that said, how many potatoes do you have? It’s always possible it’s down to it being a small number of carbs comparatively that your body can handle better with your reduced weight and improved health

I also am not perfect carb wise, personally, I can have a reasonable amount of about 150 during the day and don’t spike but if I splurge in a one off (like the fish and chips) then it lasts for a long time so I need to be very wary and make it a treat

I also know treats can easily become daily so it’s hard

It wasn't a lot to be honest, probably equivalent of two medium sized potatoes. So it's probably understandable that it didn't stay high, my confusion was that it's lower having had them than having virtually no carbs. I don't doubt mine would do the same after fish and chips or something along those lines, I might give it a try when I finally get to my ideal weight. At the moment though, I've finally managed to build a bit of momentum with it so I'm just going to stick to my guns.

The most surprising thing for me since I've been closely monitoring my blood sugar though, is the impact of exercise, even pretty steady exercise. If I measure my blood sugar, and then take the dogs for a moderate walk (3 miles in 45-50 minutes), my blood sugar is always pretty much exactly 2mmol/l lower after the walk. It's quite a big difference for not that much effort.

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks for the reply. I've been on 1500mg Metformin for around a year or so, the biggest difference I've noticed is the month since I've cut cereal and Riveta. As I'm sure many do, when I first got diagnosed I was ultra strict and brought my levels right down, only to let it slip shortly after and bounce back up to the levels I was when I was first diagnosed. It sounds like a bit of a cliche, but it really is a lifestyle change. I've just accepted the fact that I'll never be able eat as I used to do, but that's a good thing. I feel much better since losing weight, and have got to the point where I don't even miss the junk food. The only thing I'm struggling with now as the lack of variation in my diet, it would definitely be a good thing if I could introduce a few normal things back into my diet!!

You can do, but as many of us do is 'eat to my meter'.
You can have a small portion of anything as long as the spike isn't too high and you're below 2mmols at 2 hours. I experimented with baked beans, and I did several tests on how many beans could I tolerate, about ten! So I looked for an alternative.
Have a read of the low carb forum, because of my condition, I had to find alternatives to potatoes and other favourite foods. There are some great ideas and recipes that other posters have found.

Stay safe

 

[Lamont D]

It wasn't a lot to be honest, probably equivalent of two medium sized potatoes. So it's probably understandable that it didn't stay high, my confusion was that it's lower having had them than having virtually no carbs. I don't doubt mine would do the same after fish and chips or something along those lines, I might give it a try when I finally get to my ideal weight. At the moment though, I've finally managed to build a bit of momentum with it so I'm just going to stick to my guns.

The most surprising thing for me since I've been closely monitoring my blood sugar though, is the impact of exercise, even pretty steady exercise. If I measure my blood sugar, and then take the dogs for a moderate walk (3 miles in 45-50 minutes), my blood sugar is always pretty much exactly 2mmol/l lower after the walk. It's quite a big difference for not that much effort.

Walking is a tried and tested way of control, to help lowering your blood levels a bit lower. I eat and fifteen minutes after, I go for a walk for about fifteen minutes.
As you say a little walk is really beneficial.

 

[VioletFoxtrot]

I think the longer you stick to low carb, the less you spike on the odd occasion when you indulge in something carby. I went to the pub on Friday and had a glass of prosecco and shared half a bowl of fries. Got home and found I was 4.4. It would be a big mistake to think "Oh great, I can eat fries again!" and do it every day, but it's nice to know I can indulge once in a blue moon.

 

[moraccomoo]

Same boat as you. Was in 450s post prandial in July. I'm now down to 130s if I really went crazy on carbs like potatoes etc. Weight loss and low carb diet might have made by body to allow occassional carb treats. I want to cherish this state as long as I can without meds and trying not to poke it too much with high carb foods very frequently.

If I go overboard or if sugar levels go high because of things I couldn't control like illness, stress, travel etc , I have the best tool in the trunk ready - intermittent fasting.

 

[chrisjohnh]

Walking is a tried and tested way of control, to help lowering your blood levels a bit lower. I eat and fifteen minutes after, I go for a walk for about fifteen minutes.
As you say a little walk is really beneficial.

I would appreciate hearing more from Lamont about the proposition that someone who has gained good control (e.g. is in remission) might now have a “near normal insulin response”. How likely is that? For example, in my own case my HbA1c has been about 40 for 18 months and average fasting glucose about 5.4. I maintain constant weight and stick to 135g of carbs a day. Yet my assumption is that prior to gaining this control I had incurred some permanent impairment of the pancreas and will never regain my once full-on first phase response, just a meagre shadow of it. Isn’t this why I and numerous others In remission here are so wary of raising our carbs and getting harmful spikes? Why would we care if our insulin response were near normal? Why can’t we guzzle pizza and fries as though there were no tomorrow? Surely it is because we know we are not mended by our remission and so must always be very conservative with the carbs? Or is it to do with unmended insulin resistance instead?

 

[Resurgam]

It is rather like a hoarded house - by low carbing we gain a little space, so a single indulgence can be coped with, but soon the space is filled up again if there is a continuous influx of carbs and then things are spilling out into the walkways once more.

 

[chrisjohnh]

It is rather like a hoarded house - by low carbing we gain a little space, so a single indulgence can be coped with, but soon the space is filled up again if there is a continuous influx of carbs and then things are spilling out into the walkways once more.

Thank you, although you haven’t made it explicit I think you’re saying that getting into remission will have made a modest dent in insulin resistance so that such insulin as is produced can now pack a little glucose into our cells again - but not much. Is that it?

 

[Resurgam]

Thank you, although you haven’t made it explicit I think you’re saying that getting into remission will have made a modest dent in insulin resistance so that such insulin as is produced can now pack a little glucose into our cells again - but not much. Is that it?

I am not that sure what is actually going on - there is some alteration, yes - and the result is being able to cope a bit better, having an icecream when taking a walk in hot weather is my usual excuse for not sticking to low carb.
The longer the emptying out goes on the greater the recovery seems to go.

 

[Lamont D]

With good control, the first phase insulin response should improve from the time when you were uncontrolled and your hba1c and fasting bloods are in diabetic range. This is a supposition that your first phase insulin response has not become worse, obviously. But there are many other factors involved, one of them is other hormones that respond to eating, the imbalance may not be insulin, it is known that if your thyroid is hyper or hypo, could impact on your blood glucose levels.
it does follow, if you do have low insulin response the spike is higher, if you still have insulin resistance, if your first phase is ineffective that is why the need for low carb is necessary but still have the odd treat.
Because the overriding priority with T2, is to avoid the continuous spikes from morning to night. Avoiding the spikes will in time lower your hba1c and fasting levels even if you have the imbalance in your hormonal response.
After the initial response, the pancreas could produce enough insulin to cope with the lower spikes.
But with everyone no two people are the same. A nd because it works for me, it might not work for you!
If you lower your carbs, it will lower your spikes, which will over time lower your hba1c. That is what works for the majority but not all.
And because spuds are high carbs, it is a sensible idea to eat very small portions. And for some of us, we prefer to avoid because of the intolerance to high carbs.
I have an intolerance to a lot of carbs and sugars. And it is better for my blood glucose levels and my health to avoid them. No spuds in over ten years now!

 

[chrisjohnh]

With good control, the first phase insulin response should improve from the time when you were uncontrolled and your hba1c and fasting bloods are in diabetic range. This is a supposition that your first phase insulin response has not become worse, obviously. But there are many other factors involved, one of them is other hormones that respond to eating, the imbalance may not be insulin, it is known that if your thyroid is hyper or hypo, could impact on your blood glucose levels.
it does follow, if you do have low insulin response the spike is higher, if you still have insulin resistance, if your first phase is ineffective that is why the need for low carb is necessary but still have the odd treat.
Because the overriding priority with T2, is to avoid the continuous spikes from morning to night. Avoiding the spikes will in time lower your hba1c and fasting levels even if you have the imbalance in your hormonal response.
After the initial response, the pancreas could produce enough insulin to cope with the lower spikes.
But with everyone no two people are the same. A nd because it works for me, it might not work for you!
If you lower your carbs, it will lower your spikes, which will over time lower your hba1c. That is what works for the majority but not all.
And because spuds are high carbs, it is a sensible idea to eat very small portions. And for some of us, we prefer to avoid because of the intolerance to high carbs.
I have an intolerance to a lot of carbs and sugars. And it is better for my blood glucose levels and my health to avoid them. No spuds in over ten years now!

Many thanks for these insights Lamont.

 

[Lamont D]

I noticed that even with the significant information you have provided, there is no monitor readings.
Have you never used a glucometer, cgm?
The reason I asked, is because I have kept a food diary on paper since prior to diagnosis. And it taught me so much about my intolerance, my health, .my body.

Keep safe

Many thanks for these insights Lamont.

 

[chrisjohnh]

I noticed that even with the significant information you have provided, there is no monitor readings.
Have you never used a glucometer, cgm?
The reason I asked, is because I have kept a food diary on paper since prior to diagnosis. And it taught me so much about my intolerance, my health, .my body.

Keep safe

Yes, I used my meter a lot at the start to measure and record postprandial effects of all my typical meals, and have used it every week since diagnosis to do a standard fasting test, amidst also recording weight, waist, exercise etc. I am glued to measuring and recording - the meter and the bathroom scales and the kitchen scales are my best diabetes friends, after this website of course!

 

[lucylocket61]

Yes, I used my meter a lot at the start to measure and record postprandial effects of all my typical meals, and have used it every week since diagnosis to do a standard fasting test, amidst also recording weight, waist, exercise etc. I am glued to measuring and recording - the meter and the bathroom scales and the kitchen scales are my best diabetes friends, after this website of course!

It would be helpful if you shared the blood meter readings and the foods they relate to.