BBC news item with comments section

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Just read the comments on the Guardian web site and its just a Type 2 ass kicking competition, so many T1's just have no idea about T2 and think we are all lazy fat slobs :evil:

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR it makes me so mad when T1's wants to be distanced from T2's and whinge that "its not my fault".

Sid, you have to remember that the views of these people posting those comments are not representative of all type 1's, with articles like this you will always get wind-up merchants who are not diabetic and are looking to upset those who have the condition.

The problem is, people are conditioned into believing that Doctor knows best. When advised on what kind of diet to have and that testing is not needed people believe them. Many people unlike us here don't think of looking for information or perhaps some do, don't like what we advocate here so ignore and don't read here again. The people here wanted to control their diabetes, they want to stay free of complications or not exacerbate ones they already have, so are looking for help. Once we know what is required, then we do it.

My opinion is that NHS budgets can't just be seen as a year to year amount of money, but involve long term planning. It also involves a complete re-education of PCT. The carbs with ever meal idea is not working for a great many of us, and in some cases is making people sicker year on year. Put more money into diabetes now, reap the rewards later. To give all diabetics, but primarily T2's proper nutrition advice and strips. Make newly diagnosed patients aware of the consequences of not following the advice and offer support to those who need it.

Unfortunately, unless people are prepared to look for help such as this forum, and PCT are given training in a completely holistic approach to diabetes it will stay the same. Education, training, and initial investment in diabetes is the only way I can see a positive future for the majority of diabetics in the UK.

Ignorance of T2 diabetes is going to continue, even if the Government put out an announcement, there will some who will always say diabetes is brought on by the patients own bodily abuse. In that respect I think we all need to grow thick skins and accept there is little that is going to change on that front, certainly in the foreseeable future.

I so agree Defren and yes there will always be the ignorant people who accuse and dont understand. I guess you could say they are the same as racists in that respect. I agree for those we do need to be thick skinned. What annoys me is that Its the so called medical experts who light the fire! I also believe that we have become a blame culture where most illness are said to be brought on themselves!

My cousin has cancer. It started off as skin cancer its as ridiculous as saying that he brought it on himself because he must'nt have used a strong enough sun cream. When is it going to end! I agree with us all taking responsibility for our own health but this is getting ridiculous.

And not all T1s think badly of T2s as I would hope that not all T2s think badly of T1s. We are all just people trying to live with this horrid condition! :thumbup:

 

[xyzzy]

There's some Type 2 dissing on the Diabetes.co.uk Facebook page as well.

Didie thanks for that. I just read some of the comments and I am really shocked by some of the attitudes which takes a lot. Like I said earlier it equates to racism or anti Semitism to me. What next "T2 cleansing" perhaps, or shipping us off to work camps where we can all lose those evil over indulgent kilos. Why not just shoot us all and be done with it.

I've been fighting a lonely battle on that Facebook page all day (along with IanD). I'm not easily discouraged or depressed, but hanging around in the company of truely uninformed diabetics is genuinely troubling. I just want to hold up a big sign saying "come to Diabetes.co.uk and save your toes".

Sincerely, for all our petty squabbles over what "low-carb" really means, diabetes.co.uk really is a safe place for the newly diagnosed to come to and learn how to defeat their condition (or for the old timers to discuss the finer points of management). We often say that the DCUK bunch aren't representative of Diabetics as a whole, but a single glance at the DUK Facebook page will show you just how informed (and unfortunately how unrepresentative) we all are.

Actually Stephen it wasn't the Facebook page of DUK but the Facebook page of DCUK https://www.facebook.com/Diabetes.co.uk I really do hope that none of those people who show the kind of attitude I read are posters on this forum.

I really am too angry for words at the arrogance and ignorance of some people who should **** well know better so will not comment further until I've cooled off.

 

[mish1953]

The interesting bit ( to me ) is that 80% of the costs are preventable , like amputations, neuropathy, ulcers , eyes etc .
I'm guessing they mean that once diagnosed that patients could do more to prevent those things happening . I was listening to radio Suffolk on the way home , the debate there from medics was revolving around what they could do to help and how some GP's staff needed more education ..
The rubbish T1 v T2 row is just ignorance .

 

[lucylocket61]

If even some fellow diabetes sufferers look down on us type 2's what hope is there? "mod edit" (innapropriate comment removed) Why cant this forum and others make a campaign to educate people on the causes of all types of Diabetes and put right this rubbish?

I am feeling sad and scared about the future of treatment for us all

It is just the excuse needed by the government to withdraw treatment to type 2's and still look smug and caring. This Divide & Conquer has worked with public v private sector workers, and all manner of other things. So it works with health too.

 

[Helenababe]

I also saw this on the BBC news this morning, and I felt angry and disheartened at how they were once again blaming T2 diabetes on obesity, as the cameras scanned peoples backsides as they walked down the street!

And, now it looks like we are at fault for having complications! That's how it came over to me. They are constantly putting public opinions against us. 'Oh well, they're only diabetic because they eat too much.'

It upset me this morning, and the claptrap they come out with just isn't justified, but what can we do when the medical profession won't go against the Government?

All we can do I suppose is carry on telling 'our' stories of how it really is through our own experiences.

Helena

 

[joeyt74]

Okay, I'm a T1 (had to get that out of the way) and for years probably had the same view as many others without looking into the condition before reading back to back all posts on this thread. As a kid it is hard to judge when you are told that T2 is "avoidable" (that's another argument) but T1 isn't, it's the only consolation you have.

The main concern is education, and the only way you will get the general public educated is if it concerns them (so if you already are diabetic) or if it's interesting.

I could be entirely wrong but the message needs to come across that it IS the complications that is 'costing the NHS' and again education is the key to minimize the risk of the complications.

So regardless of T1 or T2 or T1.5 (I've never heard of T1.5 before... help?) it is the complications that are costing (and lets not kid ourselves) an unsustainable amount and we need to educate ourselves, don't rely on doctors or tv to tell you, educate yourself, read some journals, it might not be your most thrilling read of your life but you'll be glad of it. (if only we could tell those to-be diabetics the same thing, education is key in my opinion)

Sorry if I've said anything to offend any T2's, I'm trying to educate myself on it like I should.

 

[Cowboyjim]

In depth on the NHS page...
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/04april/Pages/nhs-diabetes-costs-cases-rising.aspx
"The projected future costs generated by this study have attracted most media attention, with many headlines suggesting that the costs will somehow ‘bankrupt’ or bring down the NHS. Given the uncertainties over the estimates, such claims are sensationalist and misleading". No change there then... 8)

 

[Sid Bonkers]

In depth on the NHS page...
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/04april/Pages/nhs-diabetes-costs-cases-rising.aspx
"The projected future costs generated by this study have attracted most media attention, with many headlines suggesting that the costs will somehow ‘bankrupt’ or bring down the NHS. Given the uncertainties over the estimates, such claims are sensationalist and misleading". No change there then... 8)

The NHS is already bankrupt Jim if it were an ordinary company it would have been in receivership long ago, but now it seems they have someone to blame for it other than bad management and government ministers in bed with developers over PFI's. Hospital staff are being cut to the bone and doctors, nurses and support staff are not being replaced after people leave or retire.

Its a complete shambles at the moment...

 

[noblehead]

Sorry if I upset you it not my intention to upset any of the enlightened T1's here

No you certainly didn't upset me, what I was trying to say was most of those comments (although I've not read them all) would have been there to cause hurt and distress to those who were reading them....as in type 2's, the authors could have been hiding behind the fact that they have type 1 or could indeed have been genuine.......nobody knows and as I explained they certainly aren't representative of the type 1's I have met in life or encountered on this forum.

 

[noblehead]

mod edit "quote from other poster removed


Now if I were to get upset the above comment.....mod edit quote from other poster removed would be the sort of comment to get me going.

Very surprised you wrote that lucy!

 

[Unbeliever]

The NHS is already bankrupt Jim if it were an ordinary company it would have been in receivership long ago, but now it seems they have someone to blame for it other than bad management and government ministers in bed with developers over PFI's. Hospital staff are being cut to the bone and doctors, nurses and support staff are not being replaced after people leave or retire.

Its a complete shambles at the moment...[/quote]
A few weeks ago I vaguely heard something about the NHs handing back a major sum from last year's budget. Totally forgot about it till now but puzzled me somewhat at the time, Wouldn't know anything about that would you Sid? or anyone else , of course. Thanks.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

A few weeks ago I vaguely heard something about the NHs handing back a major sum from last year's budget. Totally forgot about it till now but puzzled me somewhat at the time, Wouldn't know anything about that would you Sid? or anyone else , of course. Thanks.

No idea I'm afraid, I do know that my local PCT is millions in the red and has to pay a staggering 70% yes 70% interest to the private company that built our local hospital after selling off over half the land the trust owned for developement, these figures were quoted by Panorama in a recent program on PFI's involvement in building hospitals and then renting them back to the PCT's.

To give you an idea of the money made by these private firms my wife's office needed a lock fitted to comply with the data protection act and a combination lock was fitted so the office could be accessed by all the necessary staff, now I would guess these locks would cost less than £100 and say £50 to fit it, yes? So you would expect a bill to the tax payer of well under £200.00. Well the company who own our hospital charged the PCT £16000.00 to supply and fit the lock and a service contract for future maintenance, if it wasnt such a scandalous waste of public money it would be funny :lolno:

So the NHS handing back money - I would be very surprised if that were the case, way too many snouts in the trough nowadays :evil:

 

[xyzzy]

the message needs to come across that it IS the complications that is 'costing the NHS' and again education is the key to minimize the risk of the complications.

No I don't see anything in what you say as offensive. In fact I think you've got it just about right. To minimise complications the NHS needs to do a number of things.

1. Give up on the starchy carbs with every meal message. All informed and successful T2's know a reduced carb regime not only reduces the risks of complications but would also lower the NHS drugs bill. A good diet is ten times better than most drugs

2. Start telling T2 patients the facts of life rather than the wishy wash rubbish they get told today. Do an education campaign similar to that done for anti smoking, drink drive etc that has some real teeth to the message. Stop trying to con people that treatment targets are being successfully met by doing things like easing off on what level is safe after two hours. The targets maybe being met but the complications and harm they cause will be ever increasing.

There will always be a core of T2 people who will pay no attention to any message. That's no different from T1's who don't control. I have no issue with being critical of people once they have been given good advice and help on self management. Trouble is at the moment, advice is patchy and poor and the ones who are taking note of the current "good" advice are getting much the same results as the ones who don't.

 

[casamorena]

A GP I know is appalled that my own doctor prescribes me 50 strips a month because of the cost to the NHS. I told her that having been diagnosed in 2000 and still on diet only control I think that I have probably saved more than that by a) not having medication and b) not having the complications.

Perhaps this is an impossible question but I do wonder how much it would have cost the NHS by now if I hadn't had the strips and couldn't maintain the control.

 

[noblehead]

To give you an idea of the money made by these private firms my wife's office needed a lock fitted to comply with the data protection act and a combination lock was fitted so the office could be accessed by all the necessary staff, now I would guess these locks would cost less than £100 and say £50 to fit it, yes? So you would expect a bill to the tax payer of well under £200.00. Well the company who own our hospital charged the PCT £16000.00 to supply and fit the lock and a service contract for future maintenance, if it wasnt such a scandalous waste of public money it would be funny :lolno:

That is truly shocking, surely the PCT would ask for a breakdown of the costs and question these charges :?

I have heard that PFI built hospitals are over-charging for maintenance but that is ridiculous!

 

[viviennem]

Someone suggested we needed a high-profile figurehead . . .

Well, he may not be my idea of a figurehead, but he is in a place where he may be able to influence things, and he's just come out as a Type 2 . . .

Keith Vaz MP.

He can be emailed via http://www.parliament.uk . Maybe some of these thoughts would be better going to him? I'm just going to compose an email to him about his proposed Bill on controlling sugar in drinks (mentioned under the Fat Tax thread, with the Hansard link provided by Phoenix). I'll suggest he has a look at this thread, too. His energies would be much better spent trying to do something about the "education" aspect than on highlighting sugar in fizzy drinks.

Viv 8)

 

[didie]

I have a lot of time for Keith Vaz (yes I am an avid watcher of Parliamentary committees ) I'd rather have him as a figurehead than the rather stroppy Halle Berry.

 

[Unbeliever]

Someone suggested we needed a high-profile figurehead . . .

Well, he may not be my idea of a figurehead, but he is in a place where he may be able to influence things, and he's just come out as a Type 2 . . .

Keith Vaz MP.

He can be emailed via http://www.parliament.uk . Maybe some of these thoughts would be better going to him? I'm just going to compose an email to him about his proposed Bill on controlling sugar in drinks (mentioned under the Fat Tax thread, with the Hansard link provided by Phoenix). I'll suggest he has a look at this thread, too. His energies would be much better spent trying to do something about the "education" aspect than on highlighting sugar in fizzy drinks.

Viv 8)

It was my suggestion but well done Viv! I shall also email the genleman. Being [presumably } of south Asian descent he may have several family mebers who also have diabetes.
It is often very useful to know of an MP who has a particular interest. Thanks.

 

[Mayfly]

I felt that although many, many comments were of a negative nature, for the first time I did see some comments (on many websites, not necessarily the BBC one) about low carbing, correcting statements like "All type 2's are obese", "All diabetics are fat" and "Diabetics are more than likely fat due to 'laziness' and 'overeating'." One anonymous person who suggested we should just "get out and do more" was slammed down by three more people who told them they didn't know what they were talking about. I am trying to do my bit on the Embarrasing bodies website, which states that type 1 is more serious than type 2 - wish they wouldn't try that divide and conquer thing, really annoys me - because there are so many people with weight problems, and usually displaying classic symptoms of resistance rather than "You're not doing enough exercise". One girl is doing 6 hours of strenuous exercise and is eating their 'healthy diet'. She says the doctors don't believe she is exercising that much. :roll: because she is not losing any weight. I am assisted by 'Carlos' who does seem to like the low fat route but also insists on TESTING and low carbs.

Some presonal good news which might have wider implications : my diabetic nurse was gobsmacked by my results (my percentage is now 35%, which means nothing to me except that she thought it was good. We were trying for 48% for starters), and my cholesterol was (for her) very good. I've been reading Dr Bernstein's book which is a bit confusing as his numbers don't relate to mine, but I'll have to go and convert them in a sec. BUT she wanted to know what forum I had started on and where the research was to back up the results she was clearly seeing. We unfortunately had no time then to go through it, but I'm going back as we hadn't had time to go over my diet. It's going to shock her that a person with levels she considers amazing is living on high fat and pretty much no carbs. So, now that I have noticed that she might actually change her mind about her training, I will go back armed with websites like this one and with Dr Bernstein's book. The message might be getting out there.

 

[borofergie]

Some presonal good news which might have wider implications : my diabetic nurse was gobsmacked by my results (my percentage is now 35%, which means nothing to me except that she thought it was good. We were trying for 48% for starters), and my cholesterol was (for her) very good. I've been reading Dr Bernstein's book which is a bit confusing as his numbers don't relate to mine, but I'll have to go and convert them in a sec.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-units-converter.html

I'm afraid your HbA1c score isn't very good...
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It's VERY VERY VERY good. I think you mean 35 mmol/mol = 5.2% in old money.

Dr Bernstein would be super proud of you :clap: