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Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by DavidGrahamJones, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I notice that driving lessons, without masks, are now permitted from today in the UK.

    My gob is smacked. I cant sit in the car with my relative from another household, but I can be the 7th pupil of the day in a car, unmasked, with a driving instructor who is also permitted to be unmasked. This makes me think that herd immunity is still the agenda, plus the erroneous belief that young people, who make up most of the learners, are safe and wont go home to pass it on to their parents and grandparents after the lesson.

    And what about the safety of the driving instructors??? I know that many will choose not to have lessons, but the existence of such advice from the government is highly irresponsible, in my opinion.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-england-but-learners-face-long-wait-for-test

    edited to put the 'd' onto herd.
     
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    #181 lucylocket61, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:01 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  2. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    I cannot understand why low carb gurus are seriously questioning the science that has an evidence based background and are backing an alternative view that brings into question their credibility.

    Why are they so keen to nail their colours to a sinking ship?

    No doubt the reasons will be evident in the fullness of time.

    I do wonder if Dr David Unwin has this contrary view, he works at the coal face?
    D.
     
    #182 lindisfel, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  3. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Why would we? Most illnesses only become infectious once they become symptomatic, or we don’t/didn’t think they could be transmitted asymptomatically, e.g. SARS.
    That is not the case for COVID where studies have shown that (many) cases happen either asymptomatically or pre-symptomatically.
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article
    And
    https://theconversation.com/a-few-superspreaders-transmit-the-majority-of-coronavirus-cases-139950
    of course, this century we have a very different understanding of epidemics and disease transmission, compared with previous epi/pandemics. And by the time the next one comes knocking, we will (hopefully) have increased our understanding further.
     
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    #183 Brunneria, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:27 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  4. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    It says a lot for people of Eyam, who stayed locked down in the plague to save others.
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Possibly because they have investigated the evidence and found it wanting?

    That's always been Dr Harcombe's "thing".
     
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  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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  7. Cobia

    Cobia LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Ok i get it... i guess the r number is achieved to work on an acceptable number?..
    Ill work on infections per day... 10 days ago or so there was about 10 or less like the rest of Aus. It went to 35 few days later 70 today 105....
    Restrictions never got totally removed now melb is only partially locked down...

    Im just waiting watching it...
     
  8. Jamie H

    Jamie H · Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't say a bar is ever low risk but it's probably higher risk in texas and America who lifted restrictions a lot earlier in the process than other countries. Think sturgeon made a good point about acceptable levels of transmission being seen as higher in England than in Scotland and NI. Levels a lot lower in NI where we opened bars yesterday.. I think the best time to go to a pub is likely this weekend rather than seeing how things pan out.. Before (if it happens) things take off a bit again... Or people become even more complacent in the pubs. Very interesting topic as I don't know when it right without a vaccine!!
     
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  9. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    But surely ardent low-carb proponents hold their current views precisely because they questioned the evidence...
     
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  10. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Well therefore there just as fallible as every body else and they didnt get a special revelation on two tablets of stone.

    Just because you and bulkbiker are in lockstep, it doesnt mean others have accept what you say when you fail to refute reasoned arguments and use assertions.
     
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  11. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. I have no idea what I am going to do come September when I will be expected back the the SEN School I work at. We haven't got a lot of kids, about 60 and around 40 staff but where there are less staff and children the building is smaller, classrooms no bigger than a small living room, narrow corridors and stairs etc. We are a week into our second attempt at a full opening. First time a few weeks ago there was a case so it closed again except for vulnerable and key worker kids for another two weeks. I suspect the same will happen again at some point.

    I suspect most if not all kids will be back so the work from home option will finish so what do I do?! Masks or visors aren't mandatory so I could go down the voluntary route and look like a leper if no one else is doing it or the only other option is to call it a day if I don't want to risk it, but you can't claim benefits if you resign! Was due an HBA1C in June as my last was in December and it had jumped from 48 to 58 so no idea if it has gone up or down!

    So many in the same boat. Everything opening up willy nilly and we just really have the same guidelines we had two months ago. Mind you I wouldn't be surprised if there was a second wave and by September we will be back where we started!!

    Could be in a worse position though. Was reading an article earlier about how severely disabled people seem to have been forgotten totally. Here is the link, absolutely heart-breaking and you should ask how can this happen in a civilised country but when you see how the Government have dealt with this sadly you just aren't surprised!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53221435
     
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  12. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That goes without saying.
     
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  13. ert

    ert Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Only @Jim Lahey and @bulkbiker? Please add my name to your list.
    Anyone with a glucometer can see the relevance and wisdom of a low carbohydrate diet in the face of metabolic syndrome. My Diabetes OCDEM Specialist and GP agree with this statement but suggest they can't in the UK tell people what to eat, as it's not socially acceptable.
    Think of the medical breakthroughs that were initially ridiculed or rejected.
    Antiseptic handwashing. Ignaz Semmelweis may be the best-known example of a physician ridiculed for an idea that is now accepted as common sense.
    Helicobacter pylori. This is how Dr Barry Marshall, a gastroenterologist from Western Australia, described his efforts in the mid-1980s to convince the medical establishment that ulcers were caused by bacteria and not by stress, spicy foods, and too much acid, as conventional medical wisdom held at the time.
    Infectious proteins. When neurologist Stanley Prusiner insisted that mad cow disease and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease are caused not by viruses, bacteria, or fungi but by infectious proteins, which he dubbed "prions" in 1982, even he admitted that the idea was "clearly heretical."
    Not eating carbohydrates when your body can't process them. It's just a matter of time.


    As not to continue this apparent hijacking of 'are we returning to normal too quickly', I will add: we are. I'm remaining in lockdown, except for dog walking, which I find uplifting on isolated Woodlands Trust walks.
     
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    #193 ert, Jul 4, 2020 at 8:04 PM
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  14. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I took the lockstep comment to be in reference to being anti lock down not anti low carb. Most t2 in here agree with low carb and are not in any sort of minority in here. Don’t think anyone in this thread has questioned low carb.
     
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  15. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Your absolutely right HSSS....I am old man over 80 and I have not lost my marbles yet and still follow the argument.
    No one is questioning the low carb approach although different gurus have somewhat different approaches to diet and fasting at times.

    What I question is an almost cultish acceptance of any bilge that might come out of one's favourite gurus mouth. That's how one gets badly misled and starts blowing up 5g masts or joins a cult!:)
    D.
     
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  16. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    We walked our dog through 6 miles of woodlands and heath to end up in a country pub in Hedley.
    Other than the novelty of being cooked for and havin no washing up to do, I really enjoyed seeing a large family getting together and being physically normal with each other.
    This pub got the balance right between reassuring customers by their social distancing measures e.g. no bar service, food brought to an adjoining table etc. but also making the whole thing human by not having masks on (if there was any risk to not wearing masks then it was greater to themselves than their customers).
    So I don't think I will convince many on this thread but wanted to report that contrary to the fears of the media this pub had taken both its customer service and health protection measures very seriously!


    \the
     
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  17. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Let’s hope it’s the same everywhere, though I doubt it will be.
     
  18. WackyJacky64

    WackyJacky64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am undecided about this virus , sometimes it think its a big con and something more going on , then i am thinking it might be real, but sway towards it isn't real .
    I'm not debating it i just want to put my opinion across because i know i am not the only who doesn't beleive the virus .
    I'm fedup of the whole thing, I'm depressed I've been to A&E Wednesday as i banged my head on the car door and it triggered a migraine and my vision was disturbed migraine aura for over four hours , I was in a terrible panic and state of anxiety , my blood sugar was high and i didn't eat anything all that day , the doctor at the hospital reassured me i am healthy he was happy with my blood pressure pulse and sugar under the circumstances as I was and still am in a state high anxiety in fear of getting another migraine aura .
    All this change in daily life hasn't helped me as I have autism and any change really puts me off track big time :(
    I'm sorry if my disbelief in the virus offends or angers anyone but it is just what i believe . If i am wrong then so be it and I do respect others and do social distance and try to be kind to those who are scared . I know what fear is as above with the migraines so I wouldn't deliberatley hurt anyone by being horrible and not abiding by the guidlines .
     
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  19. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This argument amounts to little more than an ad hominem, straw man hybrid. I think we can amicably disagree on something without slighting people's intelligence by making stuff up for effect.
     
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  20. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have lost your temper as well as not making a case for your argumentation.
    The best we have heard from you guys is look at Sweden, your ignoring Sweden is another sick man of Europe with dealing with covid19. Even Boris wont have them on his list.

    If we do not deal with this virus we become a pariah economically.
     
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