1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2022 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by DavidGrahamJones, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    12,003
    Likes Received:
    23,257
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I think the whole of England has started whistling in the dark.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    4,089
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Yep.
    I also find it strange how press and media are no longer reporting on situation in Spain and Italy as they come out of lockdown too.
    For a while our gaze was outward now we are back to being insular and inward looking
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    18,969
    Likes Received:
    12,570
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Presumably because new cases there aren't growing so it doesn't support the "second wave" narrative?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

    Daily deaths in Spain appear to be single digit

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

    Similar (not quite single digit but getting there) story in Italy.

    Edit to add what I found amazing was that Prof Ferguson was being interviewed on the BBC this morning.. how can a completely discredited scientist still be spouting his opinion on the national media?
     
  4. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    12,003
    Likes Received:
    23,257
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Well Dominic Mckenzie Cummings is still running the country at least Prof Ferguson had the decency to resign.

    And as to whether or not the second wave is just an unsupported theory we will not have too long to wait to find out.

    Edit to add As far as I know Prof Ferguson's credentials as a scientist have in no way been called into question.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    #144 JohnEGreen, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:18 AM
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  5. Fairygodmother

    Fairygodmother Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,926
    Likes Received:
    5,476
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Thank you, it makes it a little more clear.
    I’m finding it just a tad disturbing to see that the results of pillar 2 have been withheld, even from local authorities, until it’s absolutely necessary that the information’s released.
    I also see on today’s news that there are a few other areas where the figures are worrying and could lead to more local lockdowns.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,932
    Likes Received:
    4,272
    Trophy Points:
    158
    It really helps that we have the UKs very own 'Rasputin' pulling all the strings of government like some multi-armed Indian deity! :)
    D.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 3
  7. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,932
    Likes Received:
    4,272
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I dont know why these sceptics praise Sweden, they are killing their old people by refusing them oxygen when they have Covid19.
    D.
     
  8. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,094
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Do you have a reputable link please?
     
  9. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,932
    Likes Received:
    4,272
    Trophy Points:
    158
    John Campbell interviewed a doctor from Sweden recently on youtube. The doctor also said how the Swedes are laughing at people wearing face masks.
    Just google Dr Tallinger reports from Sweden.
    D.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Fairygodmother

    Fairygodmother Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,926
    Likes Received:
    5,476
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

    Messages:
    21,805
    Likes Received:
    35,057
    Trophy Points:
    298
    This is a recent video by Dr John Campbell discussing the Swedish Covid 'experiment'
    His disgust at the number of deaths, and the treatment of the elderly is plain.
    In fact, he comes very close to saying that the denial of oxygen, and the dispensing of a cocktail of 'end of life' drugs (which suppress the breathing, to allow a comfortable exit) is tantamount to euthanasia, on a large scale.

     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  12. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,932
    Likes Received:
    4,272
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Hi John,
    Hope you all stay well.
    All we can do is our best to protect ourselves, families and friends.
    I just hope people on here see the big picture and are not induced to take risks due to naysayers.
    Best wishes
    Derek
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Fairygodmother

    Fairygodmother Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,926
    Likes Received:
    5,476
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Interesting @Brunneria. And he’s referring to the bmj article I posted above.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,292
    Likes Received:
    1,968
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I agree that both Sweden and the UK have got it wrong when it came to their elderly. We 'saved' the NHS by shipping them out into the care sector, then rolled out DNR notices without proper consent being given and failed to allow doctors to visit homes. Then there are the deaths that have occurred not from Covid but from under treatment of other conditions.
    Although he presents calmly and confidently he is a academic nursing lecturer hence his knowledge on the appropriateness or not of administering palliative cocktails or not administering oxygen in a care home setting. Surely it is a leap to say this was deliberate rather than simple incompetency?
    I don't think the jury can be out on Sweden just yet despite his attempted take down which I found unbalanced compared to other more qualified commentators who don't cherry pick their data to prove the point that he wants to prove - that if we don't all close down we are sacrificing elderly lives.
    Also why show the picture of US crowds partying? You could equally show BLM marches or beach goers but perhaps that would not support his argument .
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

    Messages:
    21,805
    Likes Received:
    35,057
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I prefer actual information (and there is plenty of it in the video) rather than getting bogged down with criticising a 30 sec photo segment at the beginning of the video, or attempting undermine the presenter with accusations of bias. Fortunately, John Campbell's reputation is solid enough that your comments will make little impact.

    One of the things I like about him is that he never forgets that each death is a suffering human being, leaving loved ones behind. I suppose that comes from a career spent treating people and training people in the situations that he speaks about with such experience.

    So many people, even here, seem to think 1000s of deaths have no more significance than a number on a screen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    895
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Can't speak for other care homes but the one my mother is in with dementia was very thorough in the way it dealt with the lockdown. We were informed very early on that GP's would no longer be visiting unless a matter of urgency because the GP's themselves knew that they would be potential carriers. We were also asked to complete an Advanced Care Plan with our wishes for mum if Covid got into the home. Fortunately mum years ago had done a Power of Attorney and her wishes with regard to illness and health are clear to see.

    As for Dr John I think Brunneria just about covers it!! ;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Tannith

    Tannith · BANNED

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    103
  18. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    895
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Not rocket science sadly. Boris is doing an impression right now of the Amity Island Mayor in Jaws (in fact he said the character was a hero of his a few years back!) and according to BoJo it's safe to go back in the water even though there is a man eating Great White still swimming around!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,094
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Trophy Points:
    178
    The r rate has been the same for weeks. I can only conclude that decisions being made by the government now are based on the economy, not health.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    2,091
    Trophy Points:
    178
    If R is less than 1 the virus will eventually go away, R doesn't have to keep decreasing, although if it does the virus will go away more quickly. Even if you are braking very gently, as long as you are not accelerating your car will eventually stop. Also the R number becomes pretty meaningless when there are only a few cases.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook