Desmond - worthwhile - or bite lip for 6 1/6 hrs?

[jjraak]

we were all opened to ideas, no one was judged for doing keto for example and we focused on the three main macros - carbs, protein and fat.

I though it was good to know what to do when you're going on holiday, if you're unwell, what to do in an emergency and how to check your medication. I didn't think it was a waste of time, whatever we know we can apply and help other diabetics who are struggling. I also liked that the DSN said DAFNE will be updated soon to take protein into account because apparently in some cases protein can rise the BG. So I am hopeful that NHS are catching up on the LCHF for Type 2 diabetics.
Also I always thought I was alone on this journey, but DAFNE really did bring a small group of diabetics together and understand we are facing the same struggles.

Hi @MeiChanski

Interesting post, and indicative of a possible divergence from the Type 1 and Type 2, course principals, and something of the quality of care, which i have also noticed appear in other comments.

I don't mean to be rude, i hear you and noted your are talking about DAPHNE for Type 1's
and i absolutely get that type 1 IS a more serious and potentially in a deadly RIGHT NOW, way,
as opposed to the slow decline in T2D that seems to be the expectation.

I have also seen that many T1's in reply's to other posts will mention their diabetic team, something i rarely (does anyone) notice T2d's mention in posts...in fact the only interaction many T2D's seems to have with the doctors is purely at reviews and the health checks...(and even there i doubt we are able to be completely honest )

As for me there is NO team, i rely on because ....it isn't really there.

Now to me, the priority is correct.
i don't need that help as much as someone diagnosed as type 1.
and i mean it in the nicest way,
but the two courses, are to my mind totally different. not just in scope and delivery, but in focus and content.

it maybe that T1's find the daphne more engaging and interesting, (as perhaps it should be if people are being invited years after diagnosis,) as it does have life threatening potential so material has to be on point.

And for T2's on desmonds, it's seems to be more an overview of *** just happened to us, and a little of what causes it
with the EATWELL plate for guidance..

I've posted previously that the course for me was helpful to a degree., as in @helensaramay style, as it was good to meet others affected,
But the info was poor, contrary to almost all that i have read or been pointed to on here.
though i did learn about carbs = sugar.. to my shame

sadly most on my course, just seemed to take it as given, no one challenged anything..i was too new to really feel that confident.

I did however delve into the forum in between the two dates, and did speak at the end to the two course leaders (it was two afternoon sessions ) at the 2nd session, and posed a few questions, which while they were not hostile, they did slightly patronise me,
until i started quoting various statements and articles i had read up on, then the tone changed to "Perhaps" LCHF could be of help, rather then "NO" it couldn't.

But the overall view was that we are mad, obsessive and basically wasting our time.
( yes the word obsessive was used about the forum )

Now it may well be there are excellent courses for T2D out there, and i do hope so.

But for me i think we are two distinct entities, which rather unsurprisingly are treated in different fashions.

If the question is.. is DAPHNE worth the time, i can't say.
but for Desmond's...the posts i have read, (and i am a most interested observer of type 2 issues, as i imagine are type 1's of type 1 issues) indicates to me, something needs to change.

Slightly dramatic, i'll admit...,

but it feels like i got sick with cancer and where i wanted a potential cure
i sadly got a Macmillan Nurse (greatest respect to them) to make me comfortable with respite care, until i finally pass away from complications.

NOT what i needed.. not by a MILLION Miles.

Glad of the forum for it's wisdom advise, strength it gives and the camaraderie,
but surely it shouldn't be the ONLY place to get good decent advise that CAN and DOES help if your T2D.

Hoping for a new program that DOES offer the choices i have since found helpful from here, as have many other.
Sadly as it stands Desmonds is not it.

 

[Listlad]

Hi @MeiChanski

Interesting post, and indicative of a possible divergence from the Type 1 and Type 2, course principals, and something of the quality of care, which i have also noticed appear in other comments.

I don't mean to be rude, i hear you and noted your are talking about DAPHNE for Type 1's
and i absolutely get that type 1 IS a more serious and potentially in a deadly RIGHT NOW, way,
as opposed to the slow decline in T2D that seems to be the expectation.

I have also seen that many T1's in reply's to other posts will mention their diabetic team, something i rarely (does anyone) notice T2d's mention in posts...in fact the only interaction many T2D's seems to have with the doctors is purely at reviews and the health checks...(and even there i doubt we are able to be completely honest )

As for me there is NO team, i rely on because ....it isn't really there.

Now to me, the priority is correct.
i don't need that help as much as someone diagnosed as type 1.
and i mean it in the nicest way,
but the two courses, are to my mind totally different. not just in scope and delivery, but in focus and content.

it maybe that T1's find the daphne more engaging and interesting, (as perhaps it should be if people are being invited years after diagnosis,) as it does have life threatening potential so material has to be on point.

And for T2's on desmonds, it's seems to be more an overview of *** just happened to us, and a little of what causes it
with the EATWELL plate for guidance..

I've posted previously that the course for me was helpful to a degree., as in @helensaramay style, as it was good to meet others affected,
But the info was poor, contrary to almost all that i have read or been pointed to on here.
though i did learn about carbs = sugar.. to my shame

sadly most on my course, just seemed to take it as given, no one challenged anything..i was too new to really feel that confident.

I did however delve into the forum in between the two dates, and did speak at the end to the two course leaders (it was two afternoon sessions ) at the 2nd session, and posed a few questions, which while they were not hostile, they did slightly patronise me,
until i started quoting various statements and articles i had read up on, then the tone changed to "Perhaps" LCHF could be of help, rather then "NO" it couldn't.

But the overall view was that we are mad, obsessive and basically wasting our time.
( yes the word obsessive was used about the forum )

Now it may well be there are excellent courses for T2D out there, and i do hope so.

But for me i think we are two distinct entities, which rather unsurprisingly are treated in different fashions.

If the question is.. is DAPHNE worth the time, i can't say.
but for Desmond's...the posts i have read, (and i am a most interested observer of type 2 issues, as i imagine are type 1's of type 1 issues) indicates to me, something needs to change.

Slightly dramatic, i'll admit...,

but it feels like i got sick with cancer and where i wanted a potential cure
i sadly got a Macmillan Nurse (greatest respect to them) to make me comfortable with respite care, until i finally pass away from complications.

NOT what i needed.. not by a MILLION Miles.

Glad of the forum for it's wisdom advise, strength it gives and the camaraderie,
but surely it shouldn't be the ONLY place to get good decent advise that CAN and DOES help if your T2D.

Hoping for a new program that DOES offer the choices i have since found helpful from here, as have many other.
Sadly as it stands Desmonds is not it.

What is on the forum needs to get out into the wider community and not just remain a relatively good secret.

 

[MeiChanski]

Hi @MeiChanski

Interesting post, and indicative of a possible divergence from the Type 1 and Type 2, course principals, and something of the quality of care, which i have also noticed appear in other comments.

I don't mean to be rude, i hear you and noted your are talking about DAPHNE for Type 1's
and i absolutely get that type 1 IS a more serious and potentially in a deadly RIGHT NOW, way,
as opposed to the slow decline in T2D that seems to be the expectation.

I have also seen that many T1's in reply's to other posts will mention their diabetic team, something i rarely (does anyone) notice T2d's mention in posts...in fact the only interaction many T2D's seems to have with the doctors is purely at reviews and the health checks...(and even there i doubt we are able to be completely honest )

As for me there is NO team, i rely on because ....it isn't really there.

Now to me, the priority is correct.
i don't need that help as much as someone diagnosed as type 1.
and i mean it in the nicest way,
but the two courses, are to my mind totally different. not just in scope and delivery, but in focus and content.

it maybe that T1's find the daphne more engaging and interesting, (as perhaps it should be if people are being invited years after diagnosis,) as it does have life threatening potential so material has to be on point.

And for T2's on desmonds, it's seems to be more an overview of *** just happened to us, and a little of what causes it
with the EATWELL plate for guidance..

I've posted previously that the course for me was helpful to a degree., as in @helensaramay style, as it was good to meet others affected,
But the info was poor, contrary to almost all that i have read or been pointed to on here.
though i did learn about carbs = sugar.. to my shame

sadly most on my course, just seemed to take it as given, no one challenged anything..i was too new to really feel that confident.

I did however delve into the forum in between the two dates, and did speak at the end to the two course leaders (it was two afternoon sessions ) at the 2nd session, and posed a few questions, which while they were not hostile, they did slightly patronise me,
until i started quoting various statements and articles i had read up on, then the tone changed to "Perhaps" LCHF could be of help, rather then "NO" it couldn't.

But the overall view was that we are mad, obsessive and basically wasting our time.
( yes the word obsessive was used about the forum )

Now it may well be there are excellent courses for T2D out there, and i do hope so.

But for me i think we are two distinct entities, which rather unsurprisingly are treated in different fashions.

If the question is.. is DAPHNE worth the time, i can't say.
but for Desmond's...the posts i have read, (and i am a most interested observer of type 2 issues, as i imagine are type 1's of type 1 issues) indicates to me, something needs to change.

Slightly dramatic, i'll admit...,

but it feels like i got sick with cancer and where i wanted a potential cure
i sadly got a Macmillan Nurse (greatest respect to them) to make me comfortable with respite care, until i finally pass away from complications.

NOT what i needed.. not by a MILLION Miles.

Glad of the forum for it's wisdom advise, strength it gives and the camaraderie,
but surely it shouldn't be the ONLY place to get good decent advise that CAN and DOES help if your T2D.

Hoping for a new program that DOES offer the choices i have since found helpful from here, as have many other.
Sadly as it stands Desmonds is not it.

I hope NHS do catch up as we all know NHS is always behind on the latest diabetes goodies, diets and lifestyles. I am aware there is a difference in care between us and it is such a shame to see NHS not adapting and not taking into account LCHF to reduce or manage T2 diabetes. But I'd like to think in spite of the difference, T1 and T2 are just as serious as each other in terms of not looking after ourselves. I did not agree with everything that DAFNE taught me but it did give some pointers for unforeseeable events such as the flu. I agree that this forum does shed a light or give a different angle in managing diabetes that NHS doesn't cover thoroughly. Again professionals such as DSNs, consultants, GPs and nurses should be opened to the idea of LCHF or keto. I too was told many years ago that we need carbohydrates to survive but oh boy what a change. With our fellow friend @HSSS using a libre sensor maybe that would be a good source of evidence to advocate that LCHF or keto does work and maybe push NHS to get on board and stop killing us off with carbs.

 

[Listlad]

With our fellow friend @HSSS using a libre sensor maybe that would be a good source of evidence to advocate that LCHF or keto does work and maybe push NHS to get on board and stop killing us off with carbs.

I was contemplating the Freestyle Libre myself but was advised by a few posters that it wasn’t necessary. A piece of advice that I of course had to filter out. In the end I did not use a meter at all and have reversed my condition. But to me the Abbot Freestyle Libre is a great piece of kit. I hope they eventually become available to all that need them and not just those that can afford them.

 

[CondorX]

I would love to be able to buy a Freestyle Libre, but they are unavailable for sale at present according to Abbot - only the sensors being supplied to existing users and the stocks going out to the T1 clinics. Perhaps they will return some time.
I can't imagine how the non-medical professional must find all this dietary advice utterly confusing.......I have been a doctor for over 30 years and am finding it quite extraordinary in its contradictions........Diabetes UK and most of the NHS with the exception of a few enlightened GPs and others, seem to spout the Eatwell plate and how carbs are essential or you will somehow be brain damaged!! The only brain damage I can see is in those who refuse to consider any possibility other than what they are spouting......

I totally agree about the lack of support / the lack of a "team" - I was quite shocked at how I was just dumped with a diagnosis and left to get on with it - "Do you want Metformin and a Statin" Err, no thanks, not right now. "OK, let's check in 3 months, don't leave it longer... ststins are life saving". Hmm. Ok, let's see how we go. "Oh, perhaps you want to see our practice Diabetic Nurse? " OK then, let's do that. So it's in the system somewhere......

Luckily no talk of DESMOND .......I am too outspoken and will probably be asked to leave, so perhaps best I don't go!!!!

 

[HSSS]

I would love to be able to buy a Freestyle Libre, but they are unavailable for sale at present according to Abbot - only the sensors being supplied to existing users and the stocks going out to the T1 clinics. Perhaps they will return some time.
I can't imagine how the non-medical professional must find all this dietary advice utterly confusing.......I have been a doctor for over 30 years and am finding it quite extraordinary in its contradictions........Diabetes UK and most of the NHS with the exception of a few enlightened GPs and others, seem to spout the Eatwell plate and how carbs are essential or you will somehow be brain damaged!! The only brain damage I can see is in those who refuse to consider any possibility other than what they are spouting......

I totally agree about the lack of support / the lack of a "team" - I was quite shocked at how I was just dumped with a diagnosis and left to get on with it - "Do you want Metformin and a Statin" Err, no thanks, not right now. "OK, let's check in 3 months, don't leave it longer... ststins are life saving". Hmm. Ok, let's see how we go. "Oh, perhaps you want to see our practice Diabetic Nurse? " OK then, let's do that. So it's in the system somewhere......

Luckily no talk of DESMOND .......I am too outspoken and will probably be asked to leave, so perhaps best I don't go!!!!

Libre can be bought directly from pharmacies but without a reader so you’ll need a phone that does nfc eg iphone 7 or higher I’ve just done exactly that and am about to activate it later today. They don’t tend to have many in stock and vary in price so some shopping around may be required.

 

[jjraak]

I would love to be able to buy a Freestyle Libre, but they are unavailable for sale at present according to Abbot - only the sensors being supplied to existing users and the stocks going out to the T1 clinics. Perhaps they will return some time.
I can't imagine how the non-medical professional must find all this dietary advice utterly confusing.......I have been a doctor for over 30 years and am finding it quite extraordinary in its contradictions........Diabetes UK and most of the NHS with the exception of a few enlightened GPs and others, seem to spout the Eatwell plate and how carbs are essential or you will somehow be brain damaged!! The only brain damage I can see is in those who refuse to consider any possibility other than what they are spouting......

I totally agree about the lack of support / the lack of a "team" - I was quite shocked at how I was just dumped with a diagnosis and left to get on with it - "Do you want Metformin and a Statin" Err, no thanks, not right now. "OK, let's check in 3 months, don't leave it longer... ststins are life saving". Hmm. Ok, let's see how we go. "Oh, perhaps you want to see our practice Diabetic Nurse? " OK then, let's do that. So it's in the system somewhere......

Luckily no talk of DESMOND .......I am too outspoken and will probably be asked to leave, so perhaps best I don't go!!!!

Well said...bravo.

 

[DCUKMod]

The NHS does approve of Low Carb for T2s, else neither this site's Low Carb Programme, nor Dr Unwin's RCGP e-learning course would be hosted on NHS IT landscape. The work and effort to make that happen has been absolutely immense and cannot just be brushed aside in a broad brush stroke.

The T2 Low Carb Programmes is available in the NHS APP Library, here: https://www.nhs.uk/apps-library/low-carb-program/

The Low Carb Programme is even prescribable.

The RCGP e-Learing is here: http://elearning.rcgp.org.uk/course/search.php?search=type+2+diabetes then scroll down. You will see the DCUK logo.

The RCGP e-learning only takes 30 minutes and even attracts CPD credit.

So, the seeds are in the ground.

 

[Mbaker]

I would go on the course out of curiosity to see what is being taught in my area.

Last year I went on a course and found that "they" were all over the place with advice. They showed pictures of foods and quizzed the tables as to which pile the foods should go in, whilst discussing if the food should be eaten. Then on the other hand one of the dietiticians said the lowest carb should be 90 grams (I could have fallen off my chair). There was biscuits and orange juice available to help us on our journey (Ardleigh, Essex).

 

[lucylocket61]

What is on the forum needs to get out into the wider community and not just remain a relatively good secret.

well, many of us have been trying to do just that for many years. The info is slowly trickling through,but there is still a way to go.

 

[Listlad]

well, many of us have been trying to do just that for many years. The info is slowly trickling through,but there is still a way to go.

Indeed. I am trying to step out of the online environment and spread the word via my local surgery. It is obvious that it is needed. Not everyone lands out on Internet forums.

 

[CondorX]

Libre can be bought directly from pharmacies but without a reader so you’ll need a phone that does nfc eg iphone 7 or higher I’ve just done exactly that and am about to activate it later today. They don’t tend to have many in stock and vary in price so some shopping around may be required.

Does that mean that just the sensors can be purchased at present and I can use my iphone 7 to read it? What app does it use on iphone?

 

[Listlad]

Does that mean that just the sensors can be purchased at present and I can use my iphone 7 to read it? What app does it use on iphone?

Yes. I have an iPhone 7 and it will work with that. I checked with Abbott on that.

Do you use Applepay - same technology.

 

[CondorX]

Yes. I have an iPhone 7 and it will work with that. I checked with Abbott on that.

Do you use Applepay - same technology.

Off to find a sensor now........I don't use Applepay yet, but it's an option on my phone.

 

[Listlad]

Off to find a sensor now........I don't use Applepay yet, but it's an option on my phone.

SPECIFICATIONS
Smartphone Compatibility Guide

Android

• Operating system: Android 5.0 or higher
• Near-Field Communication (NFC): Your smartphone must have NFC capabilities and NFC must be enabled.

iOS

• Phone models: iPhone 7 or higher
• Operating system: OS 11 or higher

 

[HSSS]

Does that mean that just the sensors can be purchased at present and I can use my iphone 7 to read it? What app does it use on iphone?

Yes. I’ve downloaded librelink app for the phone to read it and libreview website allows you to print reports etc. They are linked with each other.
See my threads for how it’s going for me
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/1st-ever-libre.164463/#post-2055797
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/libreview.164490/#post-2056168

 

[Brunneria]

Hi All,

Bearing in mind that this thread was started to discuss DESMOND, the recent diversions are derailments. These include posts on DAFNE, buying Libres, and Libre phone compatibility, which are all off topic.

Feel free to discuss them elsewhere, on their own threads, but please keep to DESMOND here.

Thank you in advance.

 

[KK123]

My Consultant has just offered me a 'course', not sure what it's called but he mentioned carb counting (diagnosed 2 years ago). I will go on it if only to see what they are saying and I will definitely report back! I can safely say I will not be biting my lip for hours on end and will be contributing wholeheartedly. I really don't know what they will cover or whether the courses for type1/type 2 cross over but I WILL be asking about their views on low/lower carbing and keto diets and that notorious eatwell plate and why they promote it.

Sorry, just seen moderator's post about Desmond...not sure if my post is on topic or not?? x

 

[Brunneria]

My Consultant has just offered me a 'course', not sure what it's called but he mentioned carb counting (diagnosed 2 years ago). I will go on it if only to see what they are saying and I will definitely report back! I can safely say I will not be biting my lip for hours on end and will be contributing wholeheartedly. I really don't know what they will cover or whether the courses for type1/type 2 cross over but I WILL be asking about their views on low/lower carbing and keto diets and that notorious eatwell plate and why they promote it.

Sorry, just seen moderator's post about Desmond...not sure if my post is on topic or not?? x

Worry not! The course you have been offered was probably DAFNE, because you are T1, but you were typing as I posted, and anyway, you don't know the name of the course. For all we know it could have been XPERT or DESMOND or something else.

If you do go on it, why not start a thread about it afterwards.

 

[Listlad]

It was suggested today that the DESMOND people help out at the local self care event. I had to point out at the PPG meeting that DESMOND was at a point of change right now and it would need to be those that have been converted to a LCHF solution that manned the event. The point was noted. We shall see if it happens that way.

 

[1spuds]

The bit that stuck in my mind was regarding wounds, bugs love sugar and invite friends and family to the party.

Note also poor peripheral circulation makes wound healing very difficult.In my short 1 year stint as a home health nurse I was really surprised at all the diabetic foot uclers I saw.Care of feet,and checking footware for pebbles ,etc ,and your feet constantly would be very very high on my list for folks with neuropathy and impaired sensation in feet.

OOPS,just read the off topic,please delete if this isnt helpful education.My thought is any diabetic education should definitely touch on footcare.