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Diabetes Uk dietary advice

ladybird64

ladybird64

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,731
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Dishonesty, selfishness and lack of empathy.
Rather than derail Davide B's thread on this forum, I thought I would open a new thread. This is the site which Davide linked to

http://www.storetour.co.uk/default.htm

It may seem like I am stating the obvious to many but I think the advice doled out here is very bad indeed. It talks of "diabetic control"..what do you think their definition of that actually is? And no, I am not being a smarta*se, I genuinely wonder.
We know we have got some very divided opinions on here regarding dietary matters but could anyone here take this advice seriously?

I am immediately thinking of Sid Bonkers and his portion control..sorry Sid :D Reason being he is the only person I know here who does portion control as a means of keeping his levels in check and I seem to remember where he mentioned what he eat. I don't think it was anywhere near the DUK amounts listed here, especially with cereals.

I might be a big so and so but I wasn't eating 4 egg shaped spuds before diagnosis! I would love to see 100 type 2's eat this diet for a week and have their levels checked regularly..I just do not believe that it is possible to keep under "control" while eating this lot. I am aiming this post at t2's who do not use insulin.

Is there anyone here who has contact with DUK who can explain what they mean by control? Where do they come up with a diet like this with such large carby portions? Who do they test it on? Does anyone know? I want to know!!

Ahem. Excuse me, got a bit heated there. :)
 
Hi. It's not only Sid who exercises portion control. I think most of us on the forum do as we know you have to keep the carbs at a sensibly low level to keep medication at a minimum. For each of us the actual portion sizes will vary but the approach is the same. DUK live in parallel diabetes universe. You only have to look at the recipes in the Balance mag each month to realise they have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone who suffers from diabetes. How many of us deliberately add sugar to a dessert; madness.
 
I entered my details and it would not give me a menu, Male, 30 - 59, Light Activity, Yes (Trying to lose weight). Answer they can not help :lol: :lol: .

But I also use portion control. Just to the fact I have a love, hate relationship with food. I love it, but food hates me.
 
Right well as this thread appears to be aimed at me for some reason let me first clear a few things up.

I am not and never have been a DUK fan boy I do think that they do a pretty good job with funding important research though, I have nothing against them as such but I am no fan either.

Looking at their meal suggestions, for me they recommended 6 tbls of cereal which I have just weighed out in cornflakes and it came to 24g, my usual allowance would be 16 -18g which turned out to be 4 tbls so not a million miles away and if I did eat the other 6g I doubt it would have been a problem. Lunch seemed a different matter though as the suggestion was a 4 slice sandwich or two bread rolls which I would never even contemplate, it was two rolls a day with crisps for lunch which helped me put the weight on in the first place so that seems absurd to me, I didnt bother looking any further so cant comment on diner.

As I have mentioned in past threads I would imagine they base their meal plans and diabetic help on 'best practice' which at present is to achieve the NICE recommendations which many sadly dont achieve, how they recommend you achieve that is by any combination of diet, exercise and meds, here is where the problem seems to lay. Many low carbers seem to think taking meds is an admission of failure or falling into the 'Big Pharmas' trap of keeping us all on meds. I do not subscribe to these conspiracy theories and for that reason seem to get singled out for ridicule, the truth of the matter is that if you can achieve the NICE recommendations or get under them you will increase your chances of a long and healthy life, how you do that is largely irrelevant and up to the individual.

So is the DUK diet advice wrong, well its not what I chose to eat but if those meals add up in calories to a diet that will not increase weight then whos to say that diet is wrong even if it requires some medication to achieve it, we must remember that this advice is given to all diabetics not just the ones like us who are actively managing their condition. Not everyone is anti meds, some meds can be a little hard to take sometimes but there are often alternatives available if one is unable to tolerate one particular drug, as in the case of metformin and statins. At the end of the day it is an individual call whether to take medication or not. If the DUK advice was to low carb I would guess that less people would stick to it than are sticking with their current advice, low carbing is NOT for everyone despite what some believe.

Many people here chose to low carb, I have no problem with that and in fact low carb myself. My personal view is that I do not want to increase my sat fat as current medical consensus says that I should not, if others chose to ignore that advice and chose a ketogenic diet that requires an increase in fats that is their choice but why do they always seem to feel the need to justify their choice all the time and insist I read this book or watch that video, most of which I have to say turn out to be perpetuating the myth that 'Big Pharma' are out to get us, I conspiracy theory I dont adhere to.

Mod Edit: {Removed No Need For This}

I do hope this thread isnt going to turn out to be another ass kicking competition aimed at me :yawn:
 
Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

- please ensure when posting you are contributing to the original post
 
Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

- please ensure when posting you are contributing to the original post
 
Sid,

I agree with the points you have made and I think they are valid but... you asked dawnmc if she had read your post... in return did you actually read ladybird64 as I didn't think she criticised your view point in anyway. Perhaps you jumped to conclusions.

For the same reasons as dawnmc gave this will be my farewell post.

I wish you all well.
:)
 
Sid,

I agree with the points you have made and I think they are valid but... you asked dawnmc if she had read your post... in return did you actually read ladybird64 as I didn't think she criticised your view point in anyway. Perhaps you jumped to conclusions.

For the same reasons as dawnmc gave this will be my farewell post.

I wish you all well.
:)
 
On Davide's thread that this is a spur off some people have tried out that link for example

Defren said:
I put in all my details into the menu planner, this was my menu - eek!! I think I'll pass.

Your requirements have been estimated from the data you entered. Your sample daily menu is below. Remember that this is only a guide and a starting point to help you with portion sizes. Foods in the menu plan can be interchanged - it is important to eat a varied and balanced diet. Talk to your registered dietitian for specific advice about your diet.

Breakfast

Small glass of fruit juice or a portion of fruit (see below for what's a portion)
4 tablespoons of muesli or 4 tablespoons of porridge oats or 2 weetabix or 2 shredded wheat or 6 tablespoons of other cereal with 200mls semi-skimmed/skimmed milk
or
2 slices of toast or 2 crumpets or 1 bagel or 1 muffin with 2 teaspoons of sunflower or olive oil spread and 2 teaspoons jam/marmalade/honey

Lunch

sandwich made with 2 slices bread or 1 bread roll or 1 pitta or 1 tortilla/wrap or 4 crispbreads with salad and
2-3 oz (60 - 85g) of cooked meat/poultry or vegetarian alternative or 4 - 5 oz (120 - 140g) tuna/sardines/mackerel or 3 1/2 oz (100g) cooked prawns or 2 boiled eggs
2 teaspoons low fat mayonnaise
with 2 teaspoons of sunflower or olive oil spread
Dessert: 1 low fat or diet yogurt

Dinner

6 tablespoons pasta/cous-cous/noodles or 4 tablespoons easy cook rice/basmati rice/bulgar wheat or 4 egg sized potatoes
with 6 tablepsoons vegetables or large portion of salad with low calorie dressing
2-3 oz (60 - 85g) of meat/poultry or 4 - 5 oz (120 - 140g) fish or 2 eggs or vegetarian alternative or 3 tablespoons pulses, beans or lentils
Dessert: 1 scoop ice cream and a portion of fruit (see below for what's a portion)

Additional daily milk allowance

1/3 pint (200mls) milk
Snacks

2 portions fruit and 1 biscuit. 1 portion = 1 banana, apple, orange, pear. 1 slice of a large fruit like melon or mango. 2 small fruit such as plums or apricots, handful of grapes, cherries or berries. 1 tablespoon of dried fruit


This is menu C.
Click to expand...

That really is outrageous the amount of carbohydrate in that would kill a herd of diabetic elephants . What gets me is the amount of sugar it's as if they don't realise that SUGAR is CARBOHYDRATE.

How on earth does that relate to even their own guidelines

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Reports/Nutritional_guidelines200911.pdf

Let alone the ADA 2011 ones that they reference throughout

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_1/S11.full.pdf+html It has a 130g RDA recommendation.
 
Truffle said:
Sid,

I agree with the points you have made and I think they are valid but... you asked dawnmc if she had read your post... in return did you actually read ladybird64 as I didn't think she criticised your view point in anyway. Perhaps you jumped to conclusions.

For the same reasons as dawnmc gave this will be my farewell post.

I wish you all well.
:)
Click to expand...
Don't go Truffle! :cry:
 
Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

- please ensure when posting you are contributing to the original post
 
The DUK dietary advice is based on "accepted wisdom" Not on any science. I'm a member and challenge it regularly. all they say is that a low carb diet has never been tested long term. Actually it HAS, but they don't want to go against "The Establishment"
I have an added suspicion, which is that the medical profession doesn't believe that diabetics can alter their lifestyles enough to CONTROL the condition and they will keep prescribing drugs to make everything seem easier. [until the complications set in that is! :? ] ANd they don't know what NORMAL bg is
What I'd like to do if I had the computer savvy, would be to collect data from people who keep their BG at or near NORMAL and send the it to the papers. the Daily Express comes to mind. I'm sure I could find the info on the rates of amputation and blindness as well as kidney failure. I'm sure I could display that stuff convincingly. I did try to get funding for a Ph D on the subject. I can't afford to fund myself on my pension. I'll try DUK for it.
Hana
 
Has anyone else actually calculated the carb content?

It appears that 1 starch portion is about 15g carb,

Breakfast for Menu A which is what I get if am inactive
(all the other Menus are multiples thereof)

1 weetabix or 2tbs oats or 1 slice toast ie 15g
150ml orange juice or small fruit also 15g
200ml milk 10g
so 40g carb for breakfast.

Lunch
(2 slices bread at 15g each) 30g
veggies generous estimate 10g
around 40g carb

Dinner
6tbs pasta ie 40g cooked = 30g carb (used this to calculate amount) http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/healt ... rtion-size)
veggies, generous estimate :10g
low fat yoghurt (this is where people could introduce a big variation 4-20g carb)

200ml milk 10g
fruit will vary say 15g

total around 150 (could be lower or higher depending on veggies/fruit and yoghurt, salad dressing variety)

Increasing my activity level gives another 15g at breakfast.


My personal bit (not to do with insulin, honestly!) I don't like the menu (a lot is high GI ). Having tried various weight/activity levels I think the programme is a very blunt instrument


I realise that it is a higher level of carbs than many on here eat.
The date of the programme suggests that it was before their statements on carbs/low carb diets and before their very recent revisions. (which presumably may be ongoing since they've only happened in that last month)

It is comparable to what is suggested elsewhere.
In the US, the lead writer of the most recent guidelines suggests
start with
3-4 (15g) starchy carbs per meal for a woman,
4-5 for a man
+ 1-2 snacks
She ignores carbs from veggies where I didn't ; she's not that fond of the GI either.
http://www.mcw.edu/FileLibrary/User/bco ... ay20th.pdf

150g is 600 cal so would comprise 40% of a 1500cal diet ( this menu could be less cals I haven't worked it out). 40% is the top of the range for a moderately reduced carb diet in the Swedish guidelines.
 
I just went through the store-tour link. I got Menu D.

I don't eat anything like that quantity in a day :shock: and I don't think I could! 9 tbsp couscous or pasta - I'd burst :lol: . As for what all that carbohydrate would do to my BGs . . .!

I told it I was trying to lose weight, but this sort of "balanced" diet was what took me to the weight I was when first diagnosed - over 21 stone. Morbidly obese with BG levels in the diabetic range. And even then I was not eating as much as they suggest in a day.

Viv 8)

I think I'll try again, and see what they'd have advised for me at my diagnosis weight!
 
dawnmc said:
Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

- please ensure when posting you are contributing to the original post
Click to expand...

Dawn, please don't leave. Anyone who read the previous thread, knows this thread was not aimed at anyone, if anything it was a kick at DUK. I'm sure if people read David's thread, and why this one was started they will see there was nothing aimed at anyone on this forum. I hope you will reconsider.

Mod Edit: {Removed No Need For This}
 
The total you show (150) is about where I am, BUT, like you, I don't like some of the content. Too much bread, orange juice etc. I haven't looked at the other diets.
Also, do people on this diet JUST have this? I know the idea is that they should, but I have my snacks like nuts (mainly walnuts from my French friend's garden) and occasional choccie treats. They are included in my total, but does everyone include their "extras"? We do of course, but we're not everyone. AND, I know I'm lucky in the totals I can get away with for a diet only T2 - it would probably be far too much for most.
 
Grazer said:
The total you show (150) is about where I am, BUT, like you, I don't like some of the content. Too much bread, orange juice etc. I haven't looked at the other diets.
Also, do people on this diet JUST have this? I know the idea is that they should, but I have my snacks like nuts (mainly walnuts from my French friend's garden) and occasional choccie treats. They are included in my total, but does everyone include their "extras"? We do of course, but we're not everyone. AND, I know I'm lucky in the totals I can get away with for a diet only T2 - it would probably be far too much for most.
Click to expand...

150g of carbs is about 130g a day to high for me. I would be completely out of control if I ate that kind of diet. Can't DUK see we are all individual with individual tolerance levels? Like I said on the Burgen bread thread, I can only tolerate one slice of that, and certainly not every day.

All T2's have different levels of pancreatic function, so a one size fits all diet is totally irresponsible.
 
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