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do ALL diabetics get dawn phenomenon?

Hi @jrose444 and welcome to the forums.

We are all different so I very much doubt "all" but I certainly do/did. Mine is reduced immensely since getting an insulin pump which increases my dose before I wake.

Can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on? Do you have a cgm so you can see how it rises overnight? (There might be things you can do such as increasing your night time basal, if any? ).

350mg/dL translates to 19.5mmol/L so I would hope that your diabetic team have made some suggestions as to how you can reduce this?

Once more, welcome
 
Hi @jrose444

No not all t1d's get it and it can come and go, i've had it in the past but don't get it now so we are all different, I second Ellie's advice about speaking to your Diabetes team to get advice, if you have a pump you can adjust your basal profile to combat DP, also I have found when i've had it that if I eat something low carb as soon as I am up and about and take a correction that I can stop the spike. I also avoid carbs in the morning too as more insulin resistant then so can fight a high reading till lunchtime otherwise.
 
I am a type 2 and I do. My brother who is a type 2 doesn't....
When I was on the semiglutide trial It completely disappeared
 
I agree with @KennyA, your circadian rhythm system gears up your system for daytime activity. It is the same for diabetics and non diabetics. Mine has varied from 5.8 mmol/Ls to as high as 9 mmol/ls. This morning at 5am I was at 6.
 
I think we are all different - some get it and some don't.

I definitely do (and have had all my life - I think) - did lots of work with my Basal rates when pumping without a loop.

My loop now handles it automatically so I don't know its there now though.
 
I have done but less so now, insulin pump & being retired helps, I was working in a pressured environment.

I am often a bit insulin resistant in the mornings, my routine is bolus then wait for BG to dip before eating. Sometimes its an hour so difficult when on a schedule.
 
i was wondering because i get it really bad? i go to sleep in range & wake up 350!
I think we all get a rise in the morning, it's the body preparing to wake up and for the day ahead

I think it's more a case of how much each individual rises and how the body deals with it

A non diabetic body would get the extra release of glucose but the body would instantly break it down into the needed energy so you not really notice a rise


I notice any rise I get is also dependant and how well I eat the day before
 
I don't normally get dawn phenomenon.
The way my Basal insulin is set up, I tend to drop overnight slightly.
This means I can have a biscuit supper most nights before bed, and still be well in range when I get up in the morning.
We're all different, or all weird in our own individual way, diabetic and non-diabetic alike.
 
Hi @jrose444 and welcome to the forums.

We are all different so I very much doubt "all" but I certainly do/did. Mine is reduced immensely since getting an insulin pump which increases my dose before I wake.

Can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on? Do you have a cgm so you can see how it rises overnight? (There might be things you can do such as increasing your night time basal, if any? ).

350mg/dL translates to 19.5mmol/L so I would hope that your diabetic team have made some suggestions as to how you can reduce this?

Once more, welcome
i have a cgm & im getting omnipod training next week
 
I have done but less so now, insulin pump & being retired helps, I was working in a pressured environment.

I am often a bit insulin resistant in the mornings, my routine is bolus then wait for BG to dip before eating. Sometimes its an hour so difficult when on a schedule.
me too! i usually insulate (thats what i call it lol) & then wait to have breakfast
 
i was wondering because i get it really bad? i go to sleep in range & wake up 350!
I don’t think everyone gets it as bad as some people do, I think we all have a rise to an extent in the morning. Before having an insulin pump after waking up I’d rise to around 360mg/dl or 20mmol/mol every single day.

My dawn phenomenon is “non existent” now I have a pump I still slightly rise but my pump corrects way before I go anything above around 7.5mmol/mol or 135mg/dl
 
Hi,

Noticeable for me after prepping for work. More foot on the floor?

I’m certain it’s just one of those ”fight or flight” responses the liver does dumping glycogen.
It’s a natural body response that even non diabetics would get at times.

In relation to my basal being correct as a T1, I’ve personally estimated my LD is the equivalent of eating 10 or maybe as much as 20 g of carbs? (Un bolused for.)
Which could be noticeable to the BG conscious diabetic but handled OK for anyone without the challenge of diabetes.
 
I don’t have it in the morning but I do get it between my breakfast which is always between 0-2g carb tops, I have my breakfast between 5 & 6 am and my lunch around 1230pm - I get a rise around 10.30 so I have a couple of brazils or a small slice of ham or a small square of cheese, I just need a couple of bites of something.

I’ve no idea why this happens but if don’t have that little snack it continues to rise until my lunch, if I miss out the snack it rights itself after lunch but I can hit the 7s before lunch so prefer to take the snack which keeps me in the low 5s, I don’t get this rise between my lunch & dinner which is a gap of about 7 hours

We are all very different that’s for sure!
 
Oh. I forgot to mention LD doesn’t just happen in the morning…

I got chatting with a T1 pumper after a gig I was doing one night. She was bopping in the crowd & I spotted the sensor she spotted mine..
Oddly, she mentioned giving up singing as it drove her BGs right up?
There is such a thing as “stage fright.” Stress caused can inhibit performance initially.

In daily working life as well as what I do with the bands I’m a reasonably confident person.
But even I’ve seen a (what can only be attributed to LD) spike whist dealing with “intense” management or situations…
 
I certainly do get it, the rise starts most of the time at 3am. How much it rises differs a lot. It took a while to figure out what factors influenced it. For me the most important find was that if I eat after 6pm (no matter what) my sugars spike at 3am. Just had it happen this weekend, I ate at around 7pm (roast chicken and salad) and it spiked at 3am from 6 to around 19. The days before I managed not to eat after 6 pm and the rise was a lot slower and not nearly as high, and in mostly in range. Exercise also has an influence but the difference is smaller.
 
I have had a cgm for several months and found the dawn phenomenon kicks in every morning about 3 or 4am resulting in an alarm and taking a couple of units of novorapid. I wake up around 7am and the glucose rises immediately requiring more units to cover the rise before I even think about food.
This morning I woke after no alarms all night and found my readings were virtually level all night. I have been up since 7am and had no food until 11am and it remained perfectly level.

Why? I had read to not eat carbs before bed.
Last night I had a zero carb meal about 7pm with no further carbs. I also read that increasing hydration helps reducing the DP and yesterday I did drink lots of water.

So it appears to have been down to one of these 2 actions or a combinations of them both.
 
There seems for me anyways no rhyme nor reason how high or low , or whether or not your BG measuring devices register even registers any movement. Yesterday I was a nice 5.8 mmol/Ls the day before I was at 8.7, today I was at 6.7. I'm a person of ritual and routine. I test at 5am immediately after getting out if bed. My days are ordered. I do not eat after 5pm. I have coeliac, but I'm 100% GF, but still my DP figures differ wildly.:banghead:
 
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