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do ALL diabetics get dawn phenomenon?
- Thread starter jrose444
- Start Date
Hi @jrose444 and welcome to the forums.
We are all different so I very much doubt "all" but I certainly do/did. Mine is reduced immensely since getting an insulin pump which increases my dose before I wake.
Can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on? Do you have a cgm so you can see how it rises overnight? (There might be things you can do such as increasing your night time basal, if any? ).
350mg/dL translates to 19.5mmol/L so I would hope that your diabetic team have made some suggestions as to how you can reduce this?
Once more, welcome
We are all different so I very much doubt "all" but I certainly do/did. Mine is reduced immensely since getting an insulin pump which increases my dose before I wake.
Can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on? Do you have a cgm so you can see how it rises overnight? (There might be things you can do such as increasing your night time basal, if any? ).
350mg/dL translates to 19.5mmol/L so I would hope that your diabetic team have made some suggestions as to how you can reduce this?
Once more, welcome
Hi @jrose444
No not all t1d's get it and it can come and go, i've had it in the past but don't get it now so we are all different, I second Ellie's advice about speaking to your Diabetes team to get advice, if you have a pump you can adjust your basal profile to combat DP, also I have found when i've had it that if I eat something low carb as soon as I am up and about and take a correction that I can stop the spike. I also avoid carbs in the morning too as more insulin resistant then so can fight a high reading till lunchtime otherwise.
No not all t1d's get it and it can come and go, i've had it in the past but don't get it now so we are all different, I second Ellie's advice about speaking to your Diabetes team to get advice, if you have a pump you can adjust your basal profile to combat DP, also I have found when i've had it that if I eat something low carb as soon as I am up and about and take a correction that I can stop the spike. I also avoid carbs in the morning too as more insulin resistant then so can fight a high reading till lunchtime otherwise.
CheeseSeaker
Well-Known Member
I think we are all different - some get it and some don't.
I definitely do (and have had all my life - I think) - did lots of work with my Basal rates when pumping without a loop.
My loop now handles it automatically so I don't know its there now though.
I definitely do (and have had all my life - I think) - did lots of work with my Basal rates when pumping without a loop.
My loop now handles it automatically so I don't know its there now though.
Richard F
Well-Known Member
I have done but less so now, insulin pump & being retired helps, I was working in a pressured environment.
I am often a bit insulin resistant in the mornings, my routine is bolus then wait for BG to dip before eating. Sometimes its an hour so difficult when on a schedule.
I am often a bit insulin resistant in the mornings, my routine is bolus then wait for BG to dip before eating. Sometimes its an hour so difficult when on a schedule.
I think we all get a rise in the morning, it's the body preparing to wake up and for the day ahead
I think it's more a case of how much each individual rises and how the body deals with it
A non diabetic body would get the extra release of glucose but the body would instantly break it down into the needed energy so you not really notice a rise
I notice any rise I get is also dependant and how well I eat the day before
Top_Barman
Member
I don't normally get dawn phenomenon.
The way my Basal insulin is set up, I tend to drop overnight slightly.
This means I can have a biscuit supper most nights before bed, and still be well in range when I get up in the morning.
We're all different, or all weird in our own individual way, diabetic and non-diabetic alike.
The way my Basal insulin is set up, I tend to drop overnight slightly.
This means I can have a biscuit supper most nights before bed, and still be well in range when I get up in the morning.
We're all different, or all weird in our own individual way, diabetic and non-diabetic alike.
jrose444
Member
i have a cgm & im getting omnipod training next week
jrose444
Member
me too! i usually insulate (thats what i call it lol) & then wait to have breakfast
I don’t think everyone gets it as bad as some people do, I think we all have a rise to an extent in the morning. Before having an insulin pump after waking up I’d rise to around 360mg/dl or 20mmol/mol every single day.
My dawn phenomenon is “non existent” now I have a pump I still slightly rise but my pump corrects way before I go anything above around 7.5mmol/mol or 135mg/dl
Hi,
Noticeable for me after prepping for work. More foot on the floor?
I’m certain it’s just one of those ”fight or flight” responses the liver does dumping glycogen.
It’s a natural body response that even non diabetics would get at times.
In relation to my basal being correct as a T1, I’ve personally estimated my LD is the equivalent of eating 10 or maybe as much as 20 g of carbs? (Un bolused for.)
Which could be noticeable to the BG conscious diabetic but handled OK for anyone without the challenge of diabetes.
Noticeable for me after prepping for work. More foot on the floor?
I’m certain it’s just one of those ”fight or flight” responses the liver does dumping glycogen.
It’s a natural body response that even non diabetics would get at times.
In relation to my basal being correct as a T1, I’ve personally estimated my LD is the equivalent of eating 10 or maybe as much as 20 g of carbs? (Un bolused for.)
Which could be noticeable to the BG conscious diabetic but handled OK for anyone without the challenge of diabetes.
I don’t have it in the morning but I do get it between my breakfast which is always between 0-2g carb tops, I have my breakfast between 5 & 6 am and my lunch around 1230pm - I get a rise around 10.30 so I have a couple of brazils or a small slice of ham or a small square of cheese, I just need a couple of bites of something.
I’ve no idea why this happens but if don’t have that little snack it continues to rise until my lunch, if I miss out the snack it rights itself after lunch but I can hit the 7s before lunch so prefer to take the snack which keeps me in the low 5s, I don’t get this rise between my lunch & dinner which is a gap of about 7 hours
We are all very different that’s for sure!
I’ve no idea why this happens but if don’t have that little snack it continues to rise until my lunch, if I miss out the snack it rights itself after lunch but I can hit the 7s before lunch so prefer to take the snack which keeps me in the low 5s, I don’t get this rise between my lunch & dinner which is a gap of about 7 hours
We are all very different that’s for sure!
Oh. I forgot to mention LD doesn’t just happen in the morning…
I got chatting with a T1 pumper after a gig I was doing one night. She was bopping in the crowd & I spotted the sensor she spotted mine..
Oddly, she mentioned giving up singing as it drove her BGs right up?
There is such a thing as “stage fright.” Stress caused can inhibit performance initially.
In daily working life as well as what I do with the bands I’m a reasonably confident person.
But even I’ve seen a (what can only be attributed to LD) spike whist dealing with “intense” management or situations…
I got chatting with a T1 pumper after a gig I was doing one night. She was bopping in the crowd & I spotted the sensor she spotted mine..
Oddly, she mentioned giving up singing as it drove her BGs right up?
There is such a thing as “stage fright.” Stress caused can inhibit performance initially.
In daily working life as well as what I do with the bands I’m a reasonably confident person.
But even I’ve seen a (what can only be attributed to LD) spike whist dealing with “intense” management or situations…
I certainly do get it, the rise starts most of the time at 3am. How much it rises differs a lot. It took a while to figure out what factors influenced it. For me the most important find was that if I eat after 6pm (no matter what) my sugars spike at 3am. Just had it happen this weekend, I ate at around 7pm (roast chicken and salad) and it spiked at 3am from 6 to around 19. The days before I managed not to eat after 6 pm and the rise was a lot slower and not nearly as high, and in mostly in range. Exercise also has an influence but the difference is smaller.
Mountainlad
Member
I have had a cgm for several months and found the dawn phenomenon kicks in every morning about 3 or 4am resulting in an alarm and taking a couple of units of novorapid. I wake up around 7am and the glucose rises immediately requiring more units to cover the rise before I even think about food.
This morning I woke after no alarms all night and found my readings were virtually level all night. I have been up since 7am and had no food until 11am and it remained perfectly level.
Why? I had read to not eat carbs before bed.
Last night I had a zero carb meal about 7pm with no further carbs. I also read that increasing hydration helps reducing the DP and yesterday I did drink lots of water.
So it appears to have been down to one of these 2 actions or a combinations of them both.
This morning I woke after no alarms all night and found my readings were virtually level all night. I have been up since 7am and had no food until 11am and it remained perfectly level.
Why? I had read to not eat carbs before bed.
Last night I had a zero carb meal about 7pm with no further carbs. I also read that increasing hydration helps reducing the DP and yesterday I did drink lots of water.
So it appears to have been down to one of these 2 actions or a combinations of them both.
There seems for me anyways no rhyme nor reason how high or low , or whether or not your BG measuring devices register even registers any movement. Yesterday I was a nice 5.8 mmol/Ls the day before I was at 8.7, today I was at 6.7. I'm a person of ritual and routine. I test at 5am immediately after getting out if bed. My days are ordered. I do not eat after 5pm. I have coeliac, but I'm 100% GF, but still my DP figures differ wildly.
