Do You Think I'm Experiencing False Hypos?

[dogslife]

Hello there. I'm type 2 on Gliclazide and Metformin. I have experienced quite a few genuine hypos in the past especially after reducing carbs and increasing exercise. Since reducing my Gliclazide dose my hypos have been few and far between. Recently, however I have been experiencing classic hypo symptoms again ( sudden hunger, wobbly legs, hand shakes, weakness and mind fog etc) but on testing my bloods have been in the 4 to 5ish range. A few jelly babies and 10 mins later I have been back above 6 and OK apart from "after- tiredness". On each occasion it has happened on Thurday evenings around 6.30pm. On Thursdays I volunteer at a local luncheon club which includes my eating a meat and veg/potato meal and lately, as my fbs have been within range, I have eaten more carbs than usual between 1pm and 1.45pm. I've never tested after my lunch ( too busy) and it's around 5 hours later that I get the symptoms. I'm wondering if it's a rise followed by a drop which causes the hypo symptoms.(False hypo?) I'd be grateful and interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Juicyj]

Hi there @dogslife It may well be a false hypo if you're dropping suddenly, your symptoms certainly sound like it is, however you may also get these symptoms when you drop to low 4's too as it's a warning to take some glucose on board, also as it's happening regularly then you need to report this to your DSN as your medication may need to be adjusted, but they will need to know what is happening to you before making this call.

 

[dogslife]

Hi there @dogslife It may well be a false hypo if you're dropping suddenly, your symptoms certainly sound like it is, however you may also get these symptoms when you drop to low 4's too as it's a warning to take some glucose on board, also as it's happening regularly then you need to report this to your DSN as your medication may need to be adjusted, but they will need to know what is happening to you before making this call.

Thanks,Juicyj for your reply. I think I'll make the effort to test more often on my Thursday volunteering day to see if my bs are going too high after eating lunch. Then I'll be able to see if there is a sudden drop as suspected. I haven't managed to do this during the last few weeks as there is pressure to clean/ clear everything away in a short time after everyone ( 70+ people) has finished eating. I usually resist the temptation of a pudding , which is difficult when surrounded by other people eating them- especially as they look/ smell delicious- but the last couple of weeks I have treated myself to a scoop of ice cream after giving my desert away so maybe that has caused a spike followed by a drop. There must be a connection as it has only happened on the last 3 Thursdays. Looks like I'll have to get back my self control! Thanks again.

 

[Lamont D]

Hello there. I'm type 2 on Gliclazide and Metformin. I have experienced quite a few genuine hypos in the past especially after reducing carbs and increasing exercise. Since reducing my Gliclazide dose my hypos have been few and far between. Recently, however I have been experiencing classic hypo symptoms again ( sudden hunger, wobbly legs, hand shakes, weakness and mind fog etc) but on testing my bloods have been in the 4 to 5ish range. A few jelly babies and 10 mins later I have been back above 6 and OK apart from "after- tiredness". On each occasion it has happened on Thurday evenings around 6.30pm. On Thursdays I volunteer at a local luncheon club which includes my eating a meat and veg/potato meal and lately, as my fbs have been within range, I have eaten more carbs than usual between 1pm and 1.45pm. I've never tested after my lunch ( too busy) and it's around 5 hours later that I get the symptoms. I'm wondering if it's a rise followed by a drop which causes the hypo symptoms.(False hypo?) I'd be grateful and interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

You can only know by actually testing.
However, because it does seem that you are doing well, that maybe your awareness of higher than your usual blood levels have been. And you are more sensitive to that.
Also sudden fluctuations up or down will cause the false hypos symptoms as well.

There is nothing wrong with having a small treat every now and again, as long it's only a small one which won't rocket your levels too high.

 

[dogslife]

You can only know by actually testing.
However, because it does seem that you are doing well, that maybe your awareness of higher than your usual blood levels have been. And you are more sensitive to that.
Also sudden fluctuations up or down will cause the false hypos symptoms as well.

There is nothing wrong with having a small treat every now and again, as long it's only a small one which won't rocket your levels too high.

Thanks for your response, Lamont, D.

 

[dogslife]

Well, it's happened again. Another Thursday and another onset of hypo symptoms approx. 5 hours after lunch but this time it was a genuine hypo with level of 3.8. Thank goodness for jelly babies! Didn't test at 2 hours post lunch as I'd planned because I was down to my last test strip! So I'll see what next Thursday brings.

 

[Resurgam]

I had something similar but it was after stopping taking any tablets - it was a sort of reactive hypoglycaemia after not eating breakfast, which raised my BG levels quite high, I then had lunch and at about 4 pm my BG was dropping fast.
I just started to eat breakfast with a few carbs and then did not eat until late evening as I felt no need.
I suspect your crashes are due to your insulin resistance dropping after elevating your BG with the ice cream or other carbs.
I would not eat lunch as I would be confident that my non medicated metabolism would cope just fine - but you need to cope with your medication and diet as best you can which the hypo treatment seems to be doing.

 

[dogslife]

I had something similar but it was after stopping taking any tablets - it was a sort of reactive hypoglycaemia after not eating breakfast, which raised my BG levels quite high, I then had lunch and at about 4 pm my BG was dropping fast.
I just started to eat breakfast with a few carbs and then did not eat until late evening as I felt no need.
I suspect your crashes are due to your insulin resistance dropping after elevating your BG with the ice cream or other carbs.
I would not eat lunch as I would be confident that my non medicated metabolism would cope just fine - but you need to cope with your medication and diet as best you can which the hypo treatment seems to be doing.

Thanks for your thoughts, Resurgam.

 

[dogslife]

Well, I think there is certainly something strange happening on Thursdays. Today I ate the same small meal as usual at the luncheon club where I do my voluntary work but this time no ice-cream and lo and behold at 6pm I started the wobbles/ shakes. A quick check of my sugars and they were 4.5. No jelly babies needed just a snack and I was OK. I often eat more carbs than there are in this lunch with no hypo symptoms at all. The mystery continues.

 

[Lamont D]

Well, I think there is certainly something strange happening on Thursdays. Today I ate the same small meal as usual at the luncheon club where I do my voluntary work but this time no ice-cream and lo and behold at 6pm I started the wobbles/ shakes. A quick check of my sugars and they were 4.5. No jelly babies needed just a snack and I was OK. I often eat more carbs than there are in this lunch with no hypo symptoms at all. The mystery continues.

Not to admonish you or be nasty but you really don't have to eat that Thursday luncheon.
I travel a lot and if you explain your intolerance to certain foods, they do understand!
I can't believe that the luncheon club has nothing else on the menu, for instance someone with a peanut allergy or lactose intolerance, would maybe have to have something suitable for them.

Regardless of which, your carb laden meal is too much for you, even without the ice cream!

Best wishes

 

[dogslife]

Not to admonish you or be nasty but you really don't have to eat that Thursday luncheon.
I travel a lot and if you explain your intolerance to certain foods, they do understand!
I can't believe that the luncheon club has nothing else on the menu, for instance someone with a peanut allergy or lactose intolerance, would maybe have to have something suitable for them.

Regardless of which, your carb laden meal is too much for you, even without the ice cream!

Best wishes

Thank you for your thoughts, Lamont D. As a charity luncheon club run purely by kind volunteers who provide a 3 course meal for £4 and feed up to 90 elderly people they are unable to provide alternatives. The main course consists of a slice of meat, one scoop of potatoes and 2 veg including broccoli/ green beans and (carrots/ parsnips/ turnip--which I don't eat). I have been volunteering/ eating there for years and have never had problems before. I too have travelled a lot and have eaten meals with far more carbs without hypo symptoms later . This week I omitted the ice-cream to eliminate that. Next week I will test 2 hours after eating to see if there is a spike followed by a sudden fall. Thanks again for replying.

 

[Lamont D]

Thank you for your thoughts, Lamont D. As a charity luncheon club run purely by kind volunteers who provide a 3 course meal for £4 and feed up to 90 elderly people they are unable to provide alternatives. The main course consists of a slice of meat, one scoop of potatoes and 2 veg including broccoli/ green beans and (carrots/ parsnips/ turnip--which I don't eat). I have been volunteering/ eating there for years and have never had problems before. I too have travelled a lot and have eaten meals with far more carbs without hypo symptoms later . This week I omitted the ice-cream to eliminate that. Next week I will test 2 hours after eating to see if there is a spike followed by a sudden fall. Thanks again for replying.

The only food that could cause the potential symptoms is the potatoes, other than that it is a bit of a mystery, maybe your body is adapting to the lower blood levels and the symptoms are awareness of having the potatoes, are they mashed potatoes?

Potatoes are really bad for me and some others on here! If you would have told me that spuds, chips or roasties are bad for you. I would have laughed at you.
But no chip butties for me no more!

Sacrilege!

I do hope that it won't spoil your charity work!

 

[dogslife]

The only food that could cause the potential symptoms is the potatoes, other than that it is a bit of a mystery, maybe your body is adapting to the lower blood levels and the symptoms are awareness of having the potatoes, are they mashed potatoes?

Potatoes are really bad for me and some others on here! If you would have told me that spuds, chips or roasties are bad for you. I would have laughed at you.
But no chip butties for me no more!

Sacrilege!

I do hope that it won't spoil your charity work!

Oh,Lamont D. Now you are making me feel hungry! I haven't had a chip butty in years. In answer to your question, the potatoes vary. Sometimes a scoop of mash and sometimes peeled/ boiled and cut into pieces amounting to approx.1/2 medium potato. It certainly won't spoil my work there. It involves far more than eating. It is a chance to chat with/ listen to other people, some of whom don't see anyone else or go anywhere else for the rest of the week. My hubby and I used to help with the mini bus which transported some people there and back home but we had to stop as I have a slipped disc and hubby has developed sight problems. So now my hubby sets out the tables/ chairs and helps to serve the meals and I mark everyone's name as they come in and clear up at the end of the meal. It's quite a community of lovely, interesting people!

 

[dogslife]

Thursday update: Today I ate the usual lunch at the luncheon club where I volunteer ( 1 slice of cold beef, cauliflower and potatoes, 1 mini Yorkshire pudding, (an extra treat compared to other weeks), gravy, 1/2 cup coffee with milk (Carrots were served but not eaten/ no desert at all). This time I tested before eating---6.7 and 2 1/4 hours after 1st bite--12.1!! Retested 1 3/4 hours later down to 4.4 but with no hypo symptoms this time.

 

[Rachox]

Thursday update: Today I ate the usual lunch at the luncheon club where I volunteer ( 1 slice of cold beef, cauliflower and potatoes, 1 mini Yorkshire pudding, (an extra treat compared to other weeks), gravy, 1/2 cup coffee with milk (Carrots were served but not eaten/ no desert at all). This time I tested before eating---6.7 and 2 1/4 hours after 1st bite--12.1!! Retested 1 3/4 hours later down to 4.4 but with no hypo symptoms this time.

Well done on the volunteering, it’s satisfying work I’m sure. However it looks like you need to cut the carbs, that spike of 12.1 is not going to help you. Why don’t you try just having the meat and vegetables ( no potato, Yorkie or dessert next week), then atleast you can be sociable and eat with everyone but perhaps not be unwell later. Worth a try?
What do you eat for lunch on the other days of the week?

 

[Alison Campbell]

Glad you were able to test. That 12.1 will not have been your peak blood sugar which usually is about 45mins to an hour after the first bite.

 

[dogslife]

Well done on the volunteering, it’s satisfying work I’m sure. However it looks like you need to cut the carbs, that spike of 12.1 is not going to help you. Why don’t you try just having the meat and vegetables ( no potato, Yorkie or dessert next week), then atleast you can be sociable and eat with everyone but perhaps not be unwell later. Worth a try?
What do you eat for lunch on the other days of the week?

Thanks for your reply, Rachox. I was surprised how high my bs was as the meal was small. ( Everyone else is served with a three course lunch so the main course isn't very big). I don't usually eat yorkshire pudding or desert. There are only 2 veg each week, one of which is always carrots/parsnips which I don't eat so my lunch would be a small slice of meat and a floret of cauliflower or green beans if I left the potatoes but I guess that's what I will have to do from now on. The portion of potatoes is small so I didn't think it would cause such a spike. Lunch on other days varies depending whether I eat at home or whilst out and about but I try hard to limit my carbs. (I never eat rice, pasta, chips, pastry, cereals, below ground veg or deserts). I eat some bread and occasional potatoes but never had problems before). I eat mainly salad, cheese, meat, turkey, eggs, ham/ bacon, mushrooms, fish, above ground veg. Interestingly I didn't have the hypo symptoms this week despite the sudden drop. Thanks again for your input.

 

[dogslife]

Glad you were able to test. That 12.1 will not have been your peak blood sugar which usually is about 45mins to an hour after the first bite.

Thanks for your reply, Alison Campbell. I didn't know that. I was always told to test 2 hours after first bite and deliberately waited for that long before I retested. So I could have been even higher than I thought?

 

[Alison Campbell]

For comparrision purposes medics had to pick a common time to test for oral glucose tolerence tests and guidelines for diagnosis tests. Even non diabetics can spike for a very short time, the difference is that those with diabetes spike higher and longer. This makes two hours a good time to test but it's not the full picture.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @dogslife

Just a thought, but is your Thursday lunch lower fat than you eat at home?
Am asking because a low fat meal will digest quicker, release its carbs quicker, and then the bg will drop faster afterwards.
Also, are you a bit more active on Thursday afternoons? Maybe bustling round doing stuff with more walking and carrying (as volunteers are wont to do)? Those things may be contributing to your unusual readings.

Plus, of course, if you are low carb the rest of the time, your pancreas is chilled out and relaxing, only expecting to produce small amounts of insulin. Then your Thursday lunch surprises it, and it may be late releasing insulin and then a bit to keen when it catches up (known as The Last Meal Effect).

Just a couple of suggestions which may or may not feel appropriate.