Does Fat Raise Blood Glucose?

[mazza 2]

OK, this is probably a crazy suggestion, but...
If you need carbs to gain weight, could you go on insulin for a while so as to keep your blood sugars normal while you gain weight, and then go back to low carb afterwards???
And @mazza 2 , are you sure you're T2 and not T1, LADA etc. Diet can't help if you're not producing insulin....

I'm going to ask my DN when I see her in August why she is so sure I am type 2. I did ask her when I was first diagnosed as type 2 and I can't remember why she said I was definitely type 2. I'm currently taking 4 metformin per day and I've been low carb since February so maybe I need to give it more time. My A1c was 76 in January and on the last test it was 52. So it is going in the right direction, but recently my daily levels have risen slightly.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

the point is that ingested fat, of its very nature, cannot convert to glucose. it just cant. Stored fats in our bodies can convert to glucose, but not fats we eat.

I'm not convinced that you are right about that.

Fats are moved from the gut into the blood within chylomicrons which contain triglycerides. So the fats we eat are transported in the blood as triglycerides.
Triglycerides can be broken down to release the glycerol part which can in turn be converted to glucose.
So we should be able to release glucose from the fat we eat, although it is an energy intensive process and as far as I know is second choice to using carbohydrate.

If you eat animal fat then that fat is the same as that we (as animals) store in our body(with minor variations depending on the animal).

I would not, however, expect to see a BG spike from eating fat.

 

[Guzzler]

The other thing about carbs in butter is that (a) the levels are neglible and (b) they would be carried further down the tract anyway. To be so strict about a foodstuff with nought-point-nowt carbs is almost imo obsessive.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

This is an idea that I heard Bernstein speak of, however, I would rather see if I can manage with diet first as my bg is in a happy place. I understand the logic behind it but I do feel that I am hyperinsulinaemic (though without the appropriate tests there is no way of knowing for sure).

If you take insulin and more carbohydrates you will store the spare carbohydrate as fat.

Are you sure that you want to store more fat?

Assuming that you have enough muscle, are you sure that you are under weight? Is lack of body fat your problem?
As far as I can see insulin isn't going to help you to build muscle.

 

[Guzzler]

If you take insulin and more carbohydrates you will store the spare carbohydrate as fat.

Are you sure that you want to store more fat?

Assuming that you have enough muscle, are you sure that you are under weight? Is lack of body fat your problem?
As far as I can see insulin isn't going to help you to build muscle.

Yes, I want more fat reserve. It would be extremely difficult in my circumstances to build muscle. I have raised the level of protein in my diet in an effort to preserve the muscle mass I have left and because the insulin response to protein is far more gentle than to carbs this should in theory protect the fat reserves I have left. Like I said, this is a work in process.

 

[kokhongw]

Can you spot the glucose rise after a meal of fats and proteins?

 

[MrsGruffy]

Can you spot the glucose rise after a meal of fats and proteins?

When did you eat that meal? That looks like a graph from midnight to after midday? It looks like a morning spike, same as I get pretty much every morning.

I eat only at lunch time most days (sometimes dinner time, depending on family commitments) but OMAD, no snacks, LCHF. So my numbers go down from morning onwards, and are at their lowest at the end of the day, no matter when I eat, and don't even spike 2 hrs PP. So if it's the fat and protein causing my morning spike, that's usually 16 hours after I eat. I find that hard to believe that it would be that much of a delayed reaction.

ETA: Actually it's 18 hours... I don't get up at 4am! I'd love to have a Libre just to see when those spikes actually start and how long they last for!

 

[kokhongw]

When did you eat that meal? That looks like a graph from midnight to after midday? It looks like a morning spike, same as I get pretty much every morning.

Meal was taken from the 11:53am mark (blue line)...the green line is 4-5pm.

The morning spike was due to breakfast. Usually eggs, cheese and dark chocolates or nuts.

 

[lucylocket61]

I'm not convinced that you are right about that.

Fats are moved from the gut into the blood within chylomicrons which contain triglycerides. So the fats we eat are transported in the blood as triglycerides.
Triglycerides can be broken down to release the glycerol part which can in turn be converted to glucose.
So we should be able to release glucose from the fat we eat, although it is an energy intensive process and as far as I know is second choice to using carbohydrate.

If you eat animal fat then that fat is the same as that we (as animals) store in our body(with minor variations depending on the animal).

I would not, however, expect to see a BG spike from eating fat.

theoretically a tiny amount can be processed that way but, as you say, it is energy intensive and, in reality,uses up more energy than it produces. Its the third choice, after proteins, for that reason.

so, for all practical and non-pedantic purposes, I am right in what i said.

 

[Alexandra100]

The other thing about carbs in butter is that (a) the levels are neglible and (b) they would be carried further down the tract anyway. To be so strict about a foodstuff with nought-point-nowt carbs is almost imo obsessive.

On a regime of <20g carbs daily IMO every little counts. I like having a list of "free" foods that contain absolutely no carbs eg chicken, salmon. I had butter down on that list, but no longer. Don't forget, 100g butter is not so very much, and the Jersey butter I bought recently contains 0.8g carbs per 100g. I'm not saying that I'll never touch butter again, but just that it is no longer in the "don't bother to weigh or estimate, just pile it on the plate, the more the better since I need to gain weight" category. Also, I like to know the truth about what I am eating (and everything). It irritates me when, as so often happens, people blithely claim to be eating a zero carbs diet when in fact they are just avoiding grains and added sugar.

 

[bulkbiker]

On a regime of <20g carbs daily IMO every little counts. I like having a list of "free" foods that contain absolutely no carbs eg chicken, salmon. I had butter down on that list, but no longer. Don't forget, 100g butter is not so very much, and the Jersey butter I bought recently contains 0.8g carbs per 100g. I'm not saying that I'll never touch butter again, but just that it is no longer in the "don't bother to weigh or estimate, just pile it on the plate, the more the better since I need to gain weight" category. Also, I like to know the truth about what I am eating (and everything). It irritates me when, as so often happens, people blithely claim to be eating a zero carbs diet when in fact they are just avoiding grains and added sugar.

Or you could change to the one I linked to that has no carbs and is cheaper.... and 100g of butter is a hell of a lot ....I eat it sliced and only have 20g per day as well as using it for cooking.. what on earth do you do with it to use 100g in anything?

 

[zand]

That's true 100g is a lot. I only used 53g butter in one day when I ate over 92% of my cals as fats. I did manage pots and pots of cream though

 

[Alexandra100]

what on earth do you do with it to use 100g in anything?

MYOB!!!

 

[Guzzler]

On a regime of <20g carbs daily IMO every little counts. I like having a list of "free" foods that contain absolutely no carbs eg chicken, salmon. I had butter down on that list, but no longer. Don't forget, 100g butter is not so very much, and the Jersey butter I bought recently contains 0.8g carbs per 100g. I'm not saying that I'll never touch butter again, but just that it is no longer in the "don't bother to weigh or estimate, just pile it on the plate, the more the better since I need to gain weight" category. Also, I like to know the truth about what I am eating (and everything). It irritates me when, as so often happens, people blithely claim to be eating a zero carbs diet when in fact they are just avoiding grains and added sugar.

0.8g will not spike you even on top of your full quota of 20g. 0.8g will not make you gain weight.

I do hope that you are not inferring that I am deluding myself into thinking I am on zero carbs because I have never claimed to be. I could go lower than 20g and sometimes do but I am comfortable at 30g ish, this is after being diagnosed obviously.

 

[Brunneria]

Even if butter does contain small amounts of carbs, the rate at which those carbs will be released into the bloodstream will be unidentifiable, because fat is digested so slowly that any butter-carb-peak will be late and miniscule.

Even on a CGM it would be impossible to identify the tiny blip on the graph that came from butter-carbs, compared with other daily miniscule blips caused by stuff like rushing in from the garden to answer the phone, or going 'ow' when you stub your toe.

Carb and glucose management is as much an art as a science, and there comes a point when micromanaging numbers becomes self defeating.

 

[Alexandra100]

0.8g will not spike you even on top of your full quota of 20g. 0.8g will not make you gain weight.

I do hope that you are not inferring that I am deluding myself into thinking I am on zero carbs because I have never claimed to be. I could go lower than 20g and sometimes do but I am comfortable at 30g ish, this is after being diagnosed obviously.

Since I suffer from gastroparesis, it is not possible to monitor exactly what individual foods spike me. I have the impression that my problem is rather that long before the end of the day my small store of insulin is exhausted, so to try and deal with this I keep my total carbs per day as low as possible. Of course I would love to eat more carbs, but I care even more about avoiding higher bg readings. I am not trying to lose weight, at a BMI of about 16 I need to gain weight.

No, it was a general observation, nothing to do with you.

 

[Guzzler]

Since I suffer from gastroparesis, it is not possible to monitor exactly what individual foods spike me. I have the impression that my problem is rather that long before the end of the day my small store of insulin is exhausted, so to try and deal with this I keep my total carbs per day as low as possible. Of course I would love to eat more carbs, but I care even more about avoiding higher bg readings. I am not trying to lose weight, at a BMI of about 16 I need to gain weight.

No, it was a general observation, nothing to do with you.

May I ask if you have any kind of insulin level test? Personally I have never had one but I am almost convinced that I am still highly insulin resistant.

 

[tim2000s]

Personally I have never had one but I am almost convinced that I am still highly insulin resistant.

As someone who likes to try things out, I've played with low carb and now I'm playing with a plant based diet (best described as a vegan diet). And here's the thing. After two weeks, it's improved my insulin sensitivity/carb ratio as a type 1, which is tremendously disconcerting, but also fascinating and seems to have sped up the peak action time of the insulin.

I've a theory as to why that is, but it's essentially achieving the same thing as low carb does, in that it makes me need less insulin. I'll give it another couple of weeks and see where I end up with it.

 

[Guzzler]

As someone who likes to try things out, I've played with low carb and now I'm playing with a plant based diet (best described as a vegan diet). And here's the thing. After two weeks, it's improved my insulin sensitivity/carb ratio as a type 1, which is tremendously disconcerting, but also fascinating and seems to have sped up the peak action time of the insulin.

I've a theory as to why that is, but it's essentially achieving the same thing as low carb does, in that it makes me need less insulin. I'll give it another couple of weeks and see where I end up with it.

Would like to hear how you get on, please give an update afterwards.

It is such a shame that insulin production/response is not routinely monitored in T2s or those with Pre D.
I suppose those going through the Honeymoon phase of T1 would prove difficult to assess. Perhaps there will come a day when we all have CGMs and a similar gizmo to measure insulin response which would help with treatment decisions. We can but hope.

 

[Alexandra100]

you may also find out something about fat and satiety too..

Satiety is the last thing I want as I need to GAIN weight and I can very easily feel full early in a meal and have to stop eating. I am consuming as much fat and protein as my body will accept.