Eat, Fast and Live Longer

[phoenix]

Benedict

What about Type 2s on insulin - I cannot find anything about that. I am on Humalog 25 with breakfast and evening meal and am thinking about whether some sort of fasting may be helpful but need to know how to adjust my insulin.
Also this fasting 2 days with one meal of 500 calories - does it have to be one meal or can those calories be over 2 meals?

Thank you. Judith

Jude, I hope you don't mind me answering!
Your insulin is designed to work with consistent meals so won't easily adjust to fasting. It only works well for people who have a consistent daily routine and meal schedule It works best in those who eat smaller lunches and larger dinners.
http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/hcp/flash ... sulin.html
A quarter of your mix (the 25) covers your breakfast and dinner with faster insulin, threequarters of the insulin is slower and is active all the time. The 'peak' of the slower insulin is supposed to cover your lunch so you could go low if you missed it. If you miss either breakfast or dinner you are very likely to hypo. If you miss your insulin entirely then you won't have any to cover the release from your liver and your levels may rise.
If you read the links I gave they really don't advise fasting with this type of insulin. The UK one gives a bit of advice on how to adjust for Ramadan with a meal pre dawn and another (often large meal) in the evening. The US advice says that it won't work well and suggests changing to other types of insulin.

 

[dawnmc]

Because Sid its Ramadan not Ramadam.

 

[catherinecherub]

Couple of interviews here with Dr. Krista Varady. She explains her rationale for eating a meal in the middle of the day on the fasting day. Also explains about the diet more.

http://www.healthyfellow.com/511/altern ... ew-part-1/
http://www.healthyfellow.com/517/dr-kri ... ew-part-2/

If you are considering this then please make your HC Team aware. If you watched the programme you will know that Michael Moseley was monitored throughout by experts and he had his own G.P. at home, his wife.

 

[Dillinger]

For the T1's - can you fast safely? Providing you DON'T inject insulin, would you be alright? Hypo's usually happen when you inject too much insulin for what you've eaten, so if you're not eating at all, is it just a case of NOT injecting?

School me???

I think as long as you are on a basal/bolus or pump regime there's no problem here; you just need to adjust as appropriate. If I were to fast I'd just take my basal and watch my bloods during the day; hopefully they would be constant. You wouldn't not inject at all because you still need insulin for your normal metabolic goings on.

If you are 'eating to your insulin' you'd be in trouble though.

Has anyone been tested for IGH 1? The growth hormone that the program was interested in?

As to how much you eat on the fast day; what is 500 calories in bacon and eggs?

Best

Dillinger

 

[dawnb64]

2 fried eggs and 3 rashers fried back bacon
or
2 eggs scrambled with milk and 5 rashers grilled back bacon
or
4 poached eggs and 5 rashers grilled back bacon

Fried egg 90 cals
Poached egg 74 cals
2 eggs scambled with milk 308 cals

1 rasher bacon fried 74 cals
1 rasher bacon grilled 40 cals
(Think this is based on normal rashers rather than thick cut)

 

[Jude]

Phoenix & Catherine

Thanks very much for your input - I did read some of the first lot of web references Phoenix but could not find what I needed.

Have just watched the web ref you gave me Phoenix but it still did not deal with fasting - but Catherine indicates that her web ref will.

 

[phoenix]

The first ref was meant to demonstrate that you need regular meals with the type of insulin you use . This is the big drawback. I think that if you are going to fast you need to be using a separate basal insulin. This is what the US document says

Problems facing patients with type 2 diabetes who administer insulin are similar to those with type 1 diabetes, except that the incidence of hypoglycemia is less. Again, the aim is to maintain necessary levels of basal insulin to prevent fasting hyperglycemia. An effective strategy would be judicious use of intermediate- or long-acting insulin preparations plus a short-acting insulin administered before meals.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Because Sid its Ramadan not Ramadam.

I am dyslexic Dawn so when my spell check does not recognise a word I spell it wrong more often than not.

Spell check does not recognise Ramadan or Ramadam which is why it didnt correct it for me.

Sorry for going off topic, feel free to delete my post

 

[Patch]

As to how much you eat on the fast day; what is 500 calories in bacon and eggs?]

2 fried eggs and 3 rashers fried back bacon
or
2 eggs scrambled with milk and 5 rashers grilled back bacon
or
4 poached eggs and 5 rashers grilled back bacon

Fried egg 90 cals
Poached egg 74 cals
2 eggs scambled with milk 308 cals

1 rasher bacon fried 74 cals
1 rasher bacon grilled 40 cals
(Think this is based on normal rashers rather than thick cut)[/quote

I've got a less concise answer:

Delicious.

 

[hanadr]

I've decided to try it!
It's not all that different from what I do normally, so I'll just have to tighten up. I plan on doing the 5/2 split with the light breakfast, lunch of low cal soup [I'll have marmite] and salad for dinner. I nearly did it yesterday, but I had the babies for the day and had a little bit to eat at lunchtime. Today, I had a small bit of goat's cheese for breakfast. I'll have Marmite for lunch and smoked Mackerell salad for dinner. [I've done2 hours at the gym this morning too] I need to get Peter to do it too. We need to keep his kidneys going as long as possible. At present they are stable, but he has stage 5 kidney disease and any further deterioration would lead to dialysis.
My week works best if I do the " fast" on Tuesday and Wednesdays.
will report results when i have some, especially monitoring weight, blood glucose and blood pressure.
I am curious about the efects, because I've been told so often that if you drop the calories too low, you stop losing weight, because your body goes into "starvation mode". It didn't do that for the Newcastle dieters did it?
Hana

 

[Sparklygal]

thats a good idea, a thread of support for fasters (ok I made up that word lol). What whitby jet said about irbesartan and potassium levels worries me, I'm on them for high BP. :shock:

Sparklygal - I have CKD, at the time it was stage 3-4, which meant that my kidneys were not good at excreting potassium. I was meant to be on a low potassium diet, yet my doctor prescribed Irbesartan which raises potassium levels.

If your kidneys are fine you dont need to worry about Irbesartan, sorry I scared you.

Hiya. I apparently have "slight" kidney damage which the Irbesartan is supposed to slow down. I'd been really worried about it but the doctor assured me it was only slight damage. He said he was surprised because I "hadn't been diabetic long enough." I hate how sometimes doctors mention casually you have something wrong then they don't tell you what to do or gave any furthur info. Mind you I know I should get my BG under better control it's just putting it into practice lol.

ETA I forgot to say how inspiring your post was re your kidney function and fasting, who'd have thought it could help so much? It's amazing you must be so pleased.

 

[WhitbyJet]

Sparklygal - if you are worried discuss your treatment with your doctor, insist on getting answers.
Maybe in your case Irbesartan is perfectly ok, I am surprised to hear that your doctor said you have mild kidney damage,
have you been given advice on what you can do to stabilise or reverse the damage?? Do you have regular bp checks, urine samples, etc?
Its just not true that people have to have diabetes for a long time before they develop complications, in some unfortunate people complications come along quite early.
Thats why its so very important to keep tight control of bg levels.

 

[Sparklygal]

Yes regular BP checks although I have not done a 24 hour urine collection for 2-3 years. I had to do one yearly when first diagnosed and assumed it'd be every year thereafter maybe I'm wrong. I will ask consultant on 17 sept when i go to see whoever it is (there's 2 full time and one or two trainees/locums). they just tell me to try harder to lower my sugar level. Any time i give a urine sample to nurse at GP clinic they always say there's protein in my urine and I suppose it comes back to sugar levels again. when I am not compliant I suppose there's not a lot more they can do.

 

[donnac1968]

Hello, I just joined the forum specifically to look for this topic!! I'm Donna by the way.

Are any of you going to try this on a pump? I'm thinking it is probably pretty straight forward on a pump because you can eat when and what you like really.

I'm on a pump and am going to start next week, Mondays and Thursdays I think. The days don't need to be together do they?

Need to get husband on board too. He doesn;t have DM but has already had (and beaten) cancer twice so hopefully it will help him too.

I am not overweight but have fat around the middle which needs to go!

Hope to "meet" you all on the boards, I'll go do an "intro" thingy now!

Best wishes
Donna

 

[Defren]

I've decided to try it!
It's not all that different from what I do normally, so I'll just have to tighten up. I plan on doing the 5/2 split with the light breakfast, lunch of low cal soup [I'll have marmite] and salad for dinner. I nearly did it yesterday, but I had the babies for the day and had a little bit to eat at lunchtime. Today, I had a small bit of goat's cheese for breakfast. I'll have Marmite for lunch and smoked Mackerell salad for dinner. [I've done2 hours at the gym this morning too] I need to get Peter to do it too. We need to keep his kidneys going as long as possible. At present they are stable, but he has stage 5 kidney disease and any further deterioration would lead to dialysis.
My week works best if I do the " fast" on Tuesday and Wednesdays.
will report results when i have some, especially monitoring weight, blood glucose and blood pressure.
I am curious about the efects, because I've been told so often that if you drop the calories too low, you stop losing weight, because your body goes into "starvation mode". It didn't do that for the Newcastle dieters did it?
Hana

Not this one it didn't. I continued to lose weight on 500 calories a day. I am still losing weight now.

I think there are a few of us going to do this and see what happens. One thing I do know, I can't do very low calories, I did that Wednesday and was ill yesterday (presuming the two are related, but it would be a mighty coincidence if they weren't). I will do 500 calories in one meal only Tuesdays and Thursdays.

 

[hanadr]

Sid
perhaps your spell checker doesn't check words that begin with a capital letter. I suspect mine doesn't, but I have no spelling difficulties, so I just check my own typos
Hana

 

[hanadr]

I managed the "partial" fast yesterday and the scales said 1/2 a kilo down this morning. BG not checked. Just had my Marmite soup and will have fish and salad again for dinner.
Will do it again tomorrow. It's not hurting me so why not?
Planned Belly pork for dinner tomorrow with cabbage, so can still do light breakfast/no lunch. I'd slip off the wagon if I tried a total fast.
Weeding my veggies in the late afternoon when it cools down.
I don't get on well with hot weather
Hana

 

[IanD]

I'm not fasting, but this is hopefully useful info for 2x 300 kcal meal replacements.

I use 2 dspoons each of ground almonds & coconut flour, made up with boiling water. I have it at b'fast supplemented with milled flax seeds & oat bran, & at night supplemented with low cal drinking choc. I always take a multivitamin/mineral supplement to ensure I get adequate nutrition. Sometimes I use soya or cows' milk, & m'wave to boil. Add cup-a-soup for lunch.

Gr Almonds 26 g - carb 1.7, prot 6.5, fat 14.6, fibre 1.9, kcal 164
coconut 18 g - carb 1.2, prot 1.0, fat 11.2, fibre 1, kcal 109
Total - 44 g - carb 2.9, prot 7.5, fat 25.8, fibre 2+, kcal 273

I don't get hungry, & I have plenty of energy for tennis & table tennis. I'm not trying to lose weight nor body-build. I maintain a BMI of about 26. I do have a substantial low carb mid-day meal. I also eat nuts & small amounts of fruit. Routine diabetes tests & other screening has not indicated any problems.

 

[Defren]

I've decided to try it!
It's not all that different from what I do normally, so I'll just have to tighten up. I plan on doing the 5/2 split with the light breakfast, lunch of low cal soup [I'll have marmite] and salad for dinner. I nearly did it yesterday, but I had the babies for the day and had a little bit to eat at lunchtime. Today, I had a small bit of goat's cheese for breakfast. I'll have Marmite for lunch and smoked Mackerell salad for dinner. [I've done2 hours at the gym this morning too] I need to get Peter to do it too. We need to keep his kidneys going as long as possible. At present they are stable, but he has stage 5 kidney disease and any further deterioration would lead to dialysis.
My week works best if I do the " fast" on Tuesday and Wednesdays.
will report results when i have some, especially monitoring weight, blood glucose and blood pressure.
I am curious about the efects, because I've been told so often that if you drop the calories too low, you stop losing weight, because your body goes into "starvation mode". It didn't do that for the Newcastle dieters did it?
Hana

I am going to fast on Tuesday's and Thursday's. Those days seem to be best for me, and work around most other things. I will have my one meal at dinner time with my family. I am sure I can skip lunch and as I never eat breakfast, that will be fine. I am hoping the results of this will be worth all the effort, although I do still have some of the benefits from the Newcastle diet, so I do feel very positive going into this. The only major difference this is an entire life time change not just eight weeks.

I said when I finished the ND I would do it every January, I think I will still do it, dependent on circumstances such as how much I ate, how bad I was If I feel I need to detox and give my pancreas a really good rest.

It's hard to look back and remember my old life, this one is just so natural and ME now.

 

[WhitbyJet]

a 24 hour fast isnt going to cause a vitamin/mineral deficiency, the idea of fasting is that it gives the body a rest and a chance to regenerate.
A whole load of chemical gunk, which these shakes are is not going to be all that healthy, would have thought it puts a strain on the body to digest these 'foreign bodies'.
I have been fasting every week for the past 6 years on thin home made vegetable broth and ginger and lemon tea, no vitamin/mineral/protein deficiency.
After a 24 hour fast you should start the next day with a light breakfast, you could have something like a super healthy chia seed and lemon fresca or coconut milk and berry smoothie.
http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm