Food

[Alec G.]

I had a blood test recently as part of my annual cardio check up. A couple of days later a request from the surgery to book a 30 minute appointment to discuss said results. Appointment booked for 4 weeks time. Such a long appointment time got me thinking. I am a 69 year old male, a smoker, a moderate drinker and I enjoy my food. Meat and 2 veg guy, don’t really do sweet stuff. Did a bit of Googling, and came to the conclusion that at meeting I will be advised that I am Type 2. Type 2 appears to be lifestyle choices. I would much rather change lifestyle then go on meds.

So I have decided to pre-empt meeting and sort myself out in the interim.

1, Reduce with a view to completely stopping smoking within the month.
2, Reduce with a view to completely stop drinking alcohol within the month.
3, The eat far more healthily.

Despite extensive reading of this forum and other sites the 3rd target has me totally confused. What I have gleaned from all my research is that there is ‘general’ concenus on the following:

1, Refined and naturally occurring sugar is bad
2, Take-away and processed foods are bad
3, Root veg is generally bad (potatoes etc)
4, Leaf veg (broccoli, cauliflower etc) is good
5, White meat (chicken and fish etc) is good
6, Certain nuts are good

So far so good. As an ex RAF engineer, the pilot would identify a problem, we would then identify the cause of the problem and resolve it. So I naturally assumed that a similar process would have been taken with Diabetes, but not so, despite the many years it has been known about and the extensive research that has been undertaken.

Many individuals and ‘esteemed professionals’ state a low carb. diet is the way to go, lose carbs and add proteins and fats, while others totally disagree. So I have looked at individual foods I would like to continue eating, half the internet says YES the other half say NO.

Butter = Yes and definitely not (it’s dairy)
Red meat = Yes and definitely not
Eggs = Yes and definitely not (one study stated that 1 egg max.a week was ok)
Milk (goat) Yes and definitely not


How the hell do you guys navigate through this minefield for possibly years. I naively thought, ok I will devise a weekly menu, but I gave up at the first breakfast, I planned poached egg on wholemeal bread with a tinned peeled tomato. Half the internet = great, other half = lethal. I gave up.

Not looking for sympathy, as I must be one of hundreds, if not thousands, who on diagnosis come to this forum and others, seeking answers only to find more questions than answers.

Can I wish you ALL the very best for your individual journeys.

 

[MrsA2]

The best guide is your own body. You can test your own bg and see what foods raise it too high (for you) and which are OK (for you)
A simple meter costs about £10 and you will need about 10 test strips a day for several weeks, so go for one with low costs strips
@Rachox has some infor she will post
Test fasting bg on waking then immediately before each meal and then 2 hours after. You can also test 1 hour after if you have the time and discipline and strips.
You will very quickly see which carbohydrate containing foods raise your bg by more than 2 from your before meal test at the 2 hour mark.
Because bodies are different and bg can also be affected by sleep, exercise, stress, medication etc (but food is the biggest contribution) its best to repeat the same meals a few times to take an average result.
As an engineer I think you will enjoy the experiments and the data. There are apps that can help.
There is no better resource than your own body to inform you.

 

[MrsA2]

Forgot to say, you could do the first week or 2 on whatever meals you are eating now to give you a baseline.
Even if you do have T2, a couple more weeks are unlikely to cause more harm as its a very slow progression to complications, years in fact

 

[Rachox]

Thanks for the tag @MrsA2 , and welcome to the forum @Alec G.

Here’s some info on UK meters, and to be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned.

HOME HEALTH have the Gluco Navii, which is a fairly new model and seems to be getting good reviews if you use this link and select the meter plus 5 packs of strips, and then add the code dcuk (all lower case) at check out you may get money off, I’m not sure if this code is still valid.

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-produ...ose-meter-test-strips-choose-mmol-l-or-mg-dl/

Links to the strips for future orders:

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/glucose-navii-blood-glucose-test-strips-50-strip-pack/

There are also discount codes for when you come to buy more strips - "navii5" and "navii10" will give you 20% off purchases of 5 packs of strips and 25% off 10 packs of strips respectively. Again I’m not sure if these codes are still valid.

Then they sell the older SD Code Free, details to be found here!

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/

Discount codes for the Code Free strips, again I haven’t used them in a while.

5 packs 264086

10 packs 975833



SPIRIT HEALTHCARE have a meter called the Tee2 + which is quite popular however I haven’t been able to find it on their website lately.

(Old link which doesn’t work for me now but maybe works for you, if it doesn’t try the phone number below

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...e2-blood-glucose-meter?variant=19264017268793 ) or Google it and you’ll find it’s available from other outlets.

EDIT TO ADD: here is a current link that works:

TEE2+ Blood Glucose Meter – Spirit Healthcare

Reliable and easy-to-use The TEE2+ blood glucose meter provides all the necessary basic functions for blood glucose testing. Key features: Large screen Results in 5 seconds Stores 1,000 readings Small blood sample requirements SmartLog compatible Bluetooth functionality Auto coding Accuracy to...

shop.spirit-health.co.uk

The strips are to be found here:

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...py-of-tee2-test-strips?variant=19264017367097

Some members have got a free Tee2+ by phoning up to order, with a large order of strips they often throw the meter in for free:

Phone number 0800 8815423

If there is a choice of units of measurement then ‘mmol/L’ are the standard units in the UK, ‘mg/dl’ in the US, other countries may vary.


Here’s the link to the Freestyle Libre site, this is what I use these days, https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/products.html



Don’t forget to check the box if you have pre diabetes or diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)

 

[catinahat]

How the hell do you guys navigate through this minefield

By keeping a few fairly simple facts as the basis of our navigation.

Carbohydrates when digested will be converted to glucose and cause your blood sugar levels to rise.

The colour of the carb makes very little difference, brown, white, wholemeal, your body can't tell the difference.

A glucose meter has no religious or moral axe to grind, it will not try to sell you the latest fad diet or book, it will simply tell you how high your sugar levels get when you eat. Then you get to decide if you are going to eat what ever it was again.

 

[KennyA]

I had a blood test recently as part of my annual cardio check up. A couple of days later a request from the surgery to book a 30 minute appointment to discuss said results. Appointment booked for 4 weeks time. Such a long appointment time got me thinking. I am a 69 year old male, a smoker, a moderate drinker and I enjoy my food. Meat and 2 veg guy, don’t really do sweet stuff. Did a bit of Googling, and came to the conclusion that at meeting I will be advised that I am Type 2. Type 2 appears to be lifestyle choices. I would much rather change lifestyle then go on meds.

So I have decided to pre-empt meeting and sort myself out in the interim.

1, Reduce with a view to completely stopping smoking within the month.
2, Reduce with a view to completely stop drinking alcohol within the month.
3, The eat far more healthily.

Despite extensive reading of this forum and other sites the 3rd target has me totally confused. What I have gleaned from all my research is that there is ‘general’ concenus on the following:

1, Refined and naturally occurring sugar is bad
2, Take-away and processed foods are bad
3, Root veg is generally bad (potatoes etc)
4, Leaf veg (broccoli, cauliflower etc) is good
5, White meat (chicken and fish etc) is good
6, Certain nuts are good

So far so good. As an ex RAF engineer, the pilot would identify a problem, we would then identify the cause of the problem and resolve it. So I naturally assumed that a similar process would have been taken with Diabetes, but not so, despite the many years it has been known about and the extensive research that has been undertaken.

Many individuals and ‘esteemed professionals’ state a low carb. diet is the way to go, lose carbs and add proteins and fats, while others totally disagree. So I have looked at individual foods I would like to continue eating, half the internet says YES the other half say NO.

Butter = Yes and definitely not (it’s dairy)
Red meat = Yes and definitely not
Eggs = Yes and definitely not (one study stated that 1 egg max.a week was ok)
Milk (goat) Yes and definitely not


How the hell do you guys navigate through this minefield for possibly years. I naively thought, ok I will devise a weekly menu, but I gave up at the first breakfast, I planned poached egg on wholemeal bread with a tinned peeled tomato. Half the internet = great, other half = lethal. I gave up.

Not looking for sympathy, as I must be one of hundreds, if not thousands, who on diagnosis come to this forum and others, seeking answers only to find more questions than answers.

Can I wish you ALL the very best for your individual journeys.

Hi Alec, and welcome to the forums. One of the best things you can do (assuming you are diabetic) is to forget everything you think you know about "healthy eating". Since around 1970-80 we have been instructed that eggs, dairy, fat and meat are bad, carbs are good. At the same time the proportion of the population that is obese has more than doubled and T2 diabetes has become common.

I'd suggest that our diet before all the advice started was probably much better - fewer heavily processed foods, less sugar, more freshly prepared, simple, and good quality ingredients.

So - I eat about 20g carbs/day. That's the equivalent roughly of one apple - it's a very low amount and many people find they can achieve what they want on twice or four times that amount. I eat as much meat, fish, eggs, dairy (cheeses, cream etc) and green veg as I want - and eat one substantial meal a day with maybe a bit of salami and cheese at lunchtime.

I don't eat bread, pasta, rice, pastry (anything with flour, basically), sugar, most root veg or fruit (apart from a few berries every so often). Wholemeal or not doesn't matter, it's all carbs.

I do drink - there are low and zero carb beers, and spirits are zero carb, and I can cope with the carbs in wine.

I gave up smoking in 1996 btw.

On what you want to continue eating - butter, red meat, eggs and goat's milk - I have the first three featuring heavily in my diet. Milk (cow's milk anyway) has about 9-10% carbs in the form of lactose, so I don't really use a lot - cream instead. I woild guess that you should be able to juggle your carb intake to accommodate goat's milk if you wanted to.

I would advise getting and using a glucose meter. You take a fingerprick blood reading as a baseline before you eat, and then two hours later another reading shows how your body has dealt with the carbs in what you've just eaten. If your system isn't working at peak efficiency - and if you have diabetes, that means it isn't - your insulin will struggle to clear the glucose from your bloodstream and your blood sugar will stay higher for longer than it should. High levels of blood sugar over time will cause physical damage.

Best of luck. If you are diabetic, there is a lot you can do to help yourself. This forum is a very good resource.

 

[Alec G.]

Firstly can I thank everyone for their responses they are greatly appreciated. This forum is very unlike the football forums I frequent.

Rachox. Before I did my first post I had already read your valuable info on meters, and on the basis of it ordered one. Even if I am not type 2, its use will help me to avoid getting there. Many thanks. Just one query, in identifying reactions to different foods, is it best to check them individually or in combination of the whole meal.

MrsA2 As an ex-engineer my journey will be interesting. However, in engineering you deal with facts and certainties, yet with this thing one person's fact is another's fiction, hence my comment about it being a minefield.

KennyA From the very limited research I have done, to me, what you wrote was spot on. If I am type 2 I have already decided I want, initially at least, to go down the diet only, low carb route. Although I understand this may not sit well with NHS providers. Can I be a bit cheeky and ask you a couple of questions?

Firstly and closest to my heart, Have you tried Salute Lager or Marston's Resolution. If so your verdict. Just please don't tell me that they taste like American beers.

If I can, a similar diet to yours would do me fine. I only mentioned goat's milk because I read it was 'healthier' than cows, I also thought that cream was just 'thick' milk so I need to check this out. You mentioned that you only have 1 main meal and a light snack at lunch. For many years I have only had a main meal in the evening with little to no snacks in-between. My body and I are used to this, so I would like to continue if possible. However, from my research I have got the impression that eating needs to be spaced out over the day. What are your and others thoughts on this.

Right I am off now to munch some delicious raw Kale!!! Take care people.

 

[EllieM]

Did a bit of Googling, and came to the conclusion that at meeting I will be advised that I am Type 2. Type 2 appears to be lifestyle choices. I would much rather change lifestyle then go on meds.

Don't disagree with any of the other posters but think you may be rushing to conclusions. You may be told you are diabetic, prediabetic or something else altogether (vitamin deficiency, anaemia, who knows? I certainly don't.) Having said that, if you are diabetic or prediabetic, getting a meter and watching your carbs is an awesome way to attempt to treat without meds if what you have is T2 diabetes.

 

[jjraak]

Hi @Alec G. .

Great points by
@MrsA2 , @catinahat & @KennyA

I'm no engineer, but do like tinkering & solving problems

And IF you are type 2, I'm a big believer in the proof of the pudding...( Lol )

To save repeating, I posted up an answer to another posters query here

Tests - don’t understand

hi, I’ve recently been diagnosed T2, the nurse did some more blood tests and urine sample. I’ve got some tests back and need to go for another blood test. But confused by some of the results. The results came abnormal: My triglycerides are 6.4 when should be no more than 2. My serum...

www.diabetes.co.uk

Basically my blood tests after eating the SAD or EATWELL diet over many years offered little real help to my body, I found out after DX..

Once I got diagnosed as type 2, I found this forum..didn't believe it could be so easy to affect changes
(it's not, but just changing diet seemed like an easier choice compared to the alternative)

I tentatively dipped a toe in.

Results kept improving
(Codefree meter, now the updated glucose navii, from home health )

So much so, I eventually stopped paddling on the edges & dived right in.

Seeing is believing, and my blood work went from 2010-2018 danger of immediate death
( ) on the diet meant to save us all.

To 2018-2019
Lipids as good as I could hope for, on a diet (LCHF) that should have killed me, day one..

...if you believe the 'experts' & snake oil salesmen.

At the beginning, all the best inventions require proof of concept.....then evidence it might just work...then a demonstration it actually works.

I got mine nicely .

I say test, follow any blood work closely, and see what works for you.

So trays & chairs in the upright position, seatbelt on.
And Prepare for take off.

 

[ajbod]

As an engineer you will find it relatively much easier, as with a meter you are dealing with facts. NOBODY ELSE will react to the foods YOU eat in the same way, the meter has no axe to grind, and unless you have something foreign on your hands which will cause it to throw a wobbly, it will not lie.
Treat it as a large experiment, to find the appropriate fuels for YOUR body, IGNORE anything you have ever been told about food, and you will also learn that unless you win the lottery with regards to your health care team, you will rapidly reach a point where you will probably know more about type 2 diabetes than they do.

 

[Outlier]

As a retiree from the ops side of aviation, I share your need for precision. Unfortunately, diabetes is not precise across the range of humanity. Each of us reacts slightly differently to various foods. Great news is that you are almost all the way there with your preferred diet already. You know what obvious carbs and sugars are - don't eat/drink 'em. You can eat freely of any fresh meat with its fat, any fish and seafood, eggs, dairy except milk (cream is pure fat, so lash it into your coffee if you like) any veg. where you eat the green leafy parts, cauliflower, broccoli, courgettes, cucumber, probably more that I can't think of just now, and use your meter to find out how your bloods are reading to understand what foods you as an individual are able to eat (more info on this available but I don't want to overwhelm you). As already stated, different life situations can spike blood glucose readings too, because that is part of the fight/flight response to stress.

This with most people will get blood glucose into an acceptable range (always supposing BG is indeed the issue your doc. wants to discuss) and then you can carefully experiment to see what and how much you can add. Some sacrifices will have to be made, but I'll let others discuss beer. I can have one glass of red wine or spirit without mixer: you may well be different. Some of us have a temporary increase in BG initially while our body dumps glucose, but it sorts itself out, so give it time. Some of us do have to take medication temporarily or for good, others of us don't need it once we have sorted our diet to allow normal BG readings.

There is a wealth of information here from people who have been there and done it - facts not theories! Medical help is variable. A few of us have had sensible advice, more of us have been told nonsense, so whatever your medics say, run it through your bullshine filter and check it out first.

 

[bulkbiker]

Butter = Yes and definitely not (it’s dairy)
Red meat = Yes and definitely not
Eggs = Yes and definitely not (one study stated that 1 egg max.a week was ok)
Milk (goat) Yes and definitely not

Yes to all those (not sure about goats milk I use double cream instead).

I planned poached egg on wholemeal bread with a tinned peeled tomato.

Personaly I'd go for 2-3 poached eggs and drop the other stuff.. or drop breakfast altogether and extend your overnight fast a bit.
Coffee with double cream might help assuage any hunger pangs ( I have 3 every morning).

 

[Deleted member 475901]

A few comments
nutritional science is still in its infancy and so advice changes,
eating to a BS meter is better than guessing how your body reacts to foods that contain carbohydrates,
all carbs turn into glucose in your body, T2 diabetics have impaired insulin resistance which is why we can't go by the so-called Eatwell plate and stay healthy.
And the old advice about restricting eggs was based on incomplete knowledge about cholesterol (in food vs cholesterol created within our system), latest advice is they are fine.
good luck!

I tested before then 2 hours every meal at first and weighed/measured all the food and drink to calculate the carbs. I found I could reduce my blood sugar by going under 90g of carbs a day and no more than 30g per meal (including any drinks). I went under 85g after a few weeks as I was still having a pre-breakfast spike. But I was lucky as I started low carb straight away, some others need to go much lower and for longer than I did.
Now I'm in remission I allow myself up 120g of carbs a day but I've got so used to low carb cooking I often stay below 100g.

 

[KennyA]

Firstly can I thank everyone for their responses they are greatly appreciated. This forum is very unlike the football forums I frequent.

Rachox. Before I did my first post I had already read your valuable info on meters, and on the basis of it ordered one. Even if I am not type 2, its use will help me to avoid getting there. Many thanks. Just one query, in identifying reactions to different foods, is it best to check them individually or in combination of the whole meal.

MrsA2 As an ex-engineer my journey will be interesting. However, in engineering you deal with facts and certainties, yet with this thing one person's fact is another's fiction, hence my comment about it being a minefield.

KennyA From the very limited research I have done, to me, what you wrote was spot on. If I am type 2 I have already decided I want, initially at least, to go down the diet only, low carb route. Although I understand this may not sit well with NHS providers. Can I be a bit cheeky and ask you a couple of questions?

Firstly and closest to my heart, Have you tried Salute Lager or Marston's Resolution. If so your verdict. Just please don't tell me that they taste like American beers.

If I can, a similar diet to yours would do me fine. I only mentioned goat's milk because I read it was 'healthier' than cows, I also thought that cream was just 'thick' milk so I need to check this out. You mentioned that you only have 1 main meal and a light snack at lunch. For many years I have only had a main meal in the evening with little to no snacks in-between. My body and I are used to this, so I would like to continue if possible. However, from my research I have got the impression that eating needs to be spaced out over the day. What are your and others thoughts on this.

Right I am off now to munch some delicious raw Kale!!! Take care people.

Alec - this place is in no way like a football forum!

Salute and Resolution are my at-home everyday beers. Salute do a lager and an IPA, both brewed in Conigliano. The lager is Moretti-ish, the IPA is a decent IPA. Resolution is a bit maltier and British in flavour and while it's not the best beer I've ever had, it's perfectly acceptable. None taste remotely Americam in style. None of the other low-carb beers I've tried deserves to be called beer.

Cream is basically fat, so has next to no lactose - I use it in coffee and cooking. From memory, both goat's milk and cow's milk have around the same amount of lactose - roughly 10% or 10g per 100ml. I don't use a lot of milk so I may have misremembered.

I have no idea where the "spread your eating out" idea comes from. It might be a piece of stray advice from the eatwell plate stuff - don't know. I've never seen it written down, only heard a few people say it's what they've been told. There are still a number of people in the NHS trained maybe 25 or 30 years ago whose ideas have not changed, and they may still be pushing the "eat little but often" advice, which really does not work.

I find it irrelevant anyway - I eat when I'm hungry, and I'm generally only wanting one proper meal a day. Occasionally that will be a zero carb full breakfast, and I don't want to eat much for 24 hours after that. Same with a substantial evening meal. Just not hungry - had a bratwurst at 1pm today but apart from that it will be 24 hrs between meals.

If i was you and used to a particular routine, particularly the one you have that suits low-carb, I'd stick with it.

Hope that is what you need. Any more questions, ask away.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I'm an engineer/scientist by profession so have always taken an investigative approach looking for the science where I can for diet. My findings are that carbs are not good for us as diabetics unless kept reasonably down as they are converted to glucose. Your meter or GGM is a guide into what quantity works for you. Proteins are generally good and you find little negative comment on the web. Fats are a different story with a lot of the 'fats are bad' mantra based on now discredited research. Also if you dig down to understand how fats are handled by the body there is little to point to them being directly a problem with regard to cholesterol deposits etc whereas the glucose the carbs are converted to are readily stored by the liver as fat. The anti-dairy thing appears to have no factual support so I treat dairy as a good food. In the end you have to make your own mind up but the NHS and various other organisations tend to be many years behind current research and suffer a lot from Groupthink.

 

[Alec G.]

I cannot repeat it enough, but I am extremely grateful for all the kind comments and superb advice from you people. I am now settled in my plan of action until I go to the appointment. Low carb diet, no, or a lot less, for the time being, cigs, no alcohol, far more exercise. Becoming a dab hand at the metering and reading this forum (because I don't think it is JUST about Diabetes it is about and applicable to making good life style choices generally). I just have one last question before I leave you all in peace, but only for a few weeks. I am compiling a list of foods and their various values that I want to eat so I can plan menu's. Obviously these values are integral to making choices, I read packages labels, check supermarket information and general goggles. Sadly there seems to be a range of values dependent on where you look. Just an example: the carbs in a 100g of Button Mushrooms range from 0.5 to 3.6. Is there a definitive or a more generally accepted list that people refer to? Or is it another good old Diabetes DIY.

 

[KennyA]

I cannot repeat it enough, but I am extremely grateful for all the kind comments and superb advice from you people. I am now settled in my plan of action until I go to the appointment. Low carb diet, no, or a lot less, for the time being, cigs, no alcohol, far more exercise. Becoming a dab hand at the metering and reading this forum (because I don't think it is JUST about Diabetes it is about and applicable to making good life style choices generally). I just have one last question before I leave you all in peace, but only for a few weeks. I am compiling a list of foods and their various values that I want to eat so I can plan menu's. Obviously these values are integral to making choices, I read packages labels, check supermarket information and general goggles. Sadly there seems to be a range of values dependent on where you look. Just an example: the carbs in a 100g of Button Mushrooms range from 0.5 to 3.6. Is there a definitive or a more generally accepted list that people refer to? Or is it another good old Diabetes DIY.

Ah, I think you might have hit the "net carbs" thing. I usually calculate mushrooms at around 3% carbs, therefore 3g per 100g. In practice I usually treat mushrooms almost as a "free good" and use plenty.

You will find on US websites (which is mainly what Google suggests to me) that they start off giving a figure, then subtracting dietary fibre from that, and wind up with a "net carbs" figure.

This can be confusing as in the UK it is standard practice to subtract the non-digestible fibre before stating the carb content, therefore the "total carb" figure (in the UK) is what you need to look at on labels etc.

The "of which sugars" that you'll see on labels is also confusing and next to meaningless for my purposes.

Even then you may find quite a bit of variation. Ultimately your glucose meter will tell you what the impact is.