Have You Watched Ted Naiman's New Presentation, "too Much Protein Is Better Than Too Little" Yet?

Winnie53

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It was just added to DietDoctor.com a few days ago.

I was so shocked by it, I needed a day to process what he said, then I spent the next couple of days listening to all his other presentations.

I think I'm going to give what he's suggesting a try.

I should add that he is a physician who practices a few hours from me and he has been teaching his patients how to do the low carb ketogenic diet to manage their diabetes and for weight loss for 20 years. Interestingly, he also was a vegetarian up until his mid to late 20's. He believes both diets work if done properly, but believes the low carb ketogenic diet works better.
 

dbr10

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It was just added to DietDoctor.com a few days ago.

I was so shocked by it, I needed a day to process what he said, then I spent the next couple of days listening to all his other presentations.

I think I'm going to give what he's suggesting a try.

I should add that he is a physician who practices a few hours from me and he has been teaching his patients how to do the low carb ketogenic diet to manage their diabetes and for weight loss for 20 years. Interestingly, he also was a vegetarian up until his mid to late 20's. He believes both diets work if done properly, but believes the low carb ketogenic diet works better.
Can you give as a link?

Oops. Still asleep, sorry. Thanks for posting
 
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Winnie53

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For those who are not members of DietDoctor.com, here's a link to Mike Mutzel of High Intensity Health interviewing Dr. Naiman...
Dr. Naiman also has a website. The link is just below the video. :)
 

Indy51

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Thanks for the link Indy51. Need to figure out how to use iTunes. Will ask husband for help with this is the morning. I was able to listen to the preview. Sounds interesting. :)
You can download the audio file from the link I gave without going to Itunes - that what I did using the download button highlighted in the screen capture below:

naiman.PNG
 

Winnie53

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Thanks Indy51. Tried but didn't work.

Oops. Just realized the problem was that I was using Internet Explorer. I can download the file to my computer using Google Chrome without downloading iTunes. Thank you. :)
 
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Winnie53

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Finally, after listening to the podcast Indy51 posted - ( https://www.peak-human.com/home/dr-ted-naiman-lifelong-health ) - I now understand why some diabetics experience an rise in glucose following eating protein. Listen in beginning at minute 00:39:10...

"I have study after study of people eating protein and then tracking glucose afterwards and it really doesn't go up unless you're a type 1 diabetic with absolutely no insulin and then you will see increases in blood sugar. Even then not so much from glycogenesis but rather from glycogen release from the liver. This whole glucogenesis thing is really kind of overblown and kind of ridiculous. And most people can eat a ton of protein without converting much of it into glucose. Your body just deaminates it and oxidizes the carbon skeletons in your mitochondria just like you would anything else.

The reality is if you take someone who is type 2 diabetic and feed them more protein, their blood sugar actually goes down and their 24 hour glucose [?] goes down about 40% if you double their protein intake. So honestly, eating more protein for a diabetic will lower their overall blood sugar.

And for normal subjects eating protein, even a ton of protein, your blood sugar doesn't even go up at all. I have studies where people ate two pounds of meat and watched their blood sugar over the next six hours and it didn't go up at all. Like none. Like zero."


Then, beginning at minute 00:43:53 concludes the above discussion [which I didn't transcribe] then goes on to share his views on the "diet wars"...

"When I do see this carb vs. fat quarrel, I'm like wow maybe we should be looking more at protein here, you know. I feel that's kind of the secret. This is why you see so much success on both sides. Like there's so many people who've been successful with low fat, so many with low carb. Honestly, both these camps have a problem. I mean I think I actually have with this protein to energy concept and that's why I'm kind of sticking with it. But yeah, low carb has a problem."

Some further discussion, then he continues...

"I'm going to stick with the low carb camp. There's a reason why I'm a low carber myself. I think it's superior but I do think that low carb has to explain some of the people we're seeing eating high carbohydrate diets and seemingly in perfect health."

His explanation of why low fat, high carb and low carb, high fat both work for diabetics is perfectly aligned with what I've been reading, observing, and thinking for a few years now.
 
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zand

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This is just my personal experience.

I discovered low carb by accident when I ran out of bread and found that I was less hungry if I didn't eat it. I had never heard of low carbing, LCHF at all. Desperate to lose weight I cut out bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, flour products etc. Sugar had already gone years before because that's the obvious one that we all know about. I was unaware that anyone else was doing this having been very disillusioned by many other diets at the time.

I switched from vegetable oil for frying when I realised how much of it clung to the pan after cooking and figured it was probably doing this to my arteries too. I reverted to lard and butter and whole milk instead of skimmed on my own initiative. I wasn't into listening to other people's advice or experience back then because whatever they advised never seemed to work for me.

To replace the carbs I doubled up on protein. 6 weeks later I was very ill with extremely high blood pressure 240/180. I don't think I drank enough water to deal with the protein.

I may be the only person in the world that this has happened to but my conscience won't let me not post this in case it's relevant to someone else.

I agree that for me protein doesn't cause a blood sugar rise, but just because we are diabetic doesn't mean we don't have a whole lot of other things to think about healthwise. It's no good focussing on blood sugars to the detriment of all other health indicators . I was told I was hours off having a stroke. My BP before my doubling up on protein experiment had been slightly high but that's all.

I know my body won't stand a doubling up of protein, and definitely wouldn't like a ton of it! I believe it is irresponsible to suggest it without also suggesting medical supervision (which of course may have been done later in the podcast/video) I know how important protein is because for years I didn't have enough of it and have suffered from a lack of it, but too much protein can also wreak havoc with my body. That's why I like LCHF, fat is fine, my body can easily double up on healthy fats without a problem.

Like I said it might just be me..... but if you are going to double up on protein at least take the precaution of doubling up on water too.
 

Winnie53

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zand, thank you for sharing your cautionary experience. Hypertension can be deadly. I do not have hypertension, though my husband does, so I agree, it needs to be monitored and managed. Here in the US, many pharmacies have a machine where you can take your blood pressure. Do you all have that in the UK too? I need to get back in the habit of checking it, though I've never been higher than 145/80, and it dropped into the normal range, 110/70, after I switched to the low carbohydrate diet and lost 26 pounds. What you describe is scary. I'm so glad you didn't have a stroke. I wish I had a better understanding of why that happened to you. I just did a quick search and you're right, water intake needs to be increased when protein is increased. I think I've heard that 5% of the population have hypertension due to a sensitivity to sodium. Dehydration could only make that worse.

Thanks for the reminder. I've gained back 13 pounds over the last two and a half years, and my responsibilities at work have increased so I need to see where my blood pressure is right now, and continue to monitor it. Lab tests alone aren't enough to monitor health. :)

I had to listen to all available presentations and interviews to understand what Dr. Naiman's doing personally for himself and with his patients so I think I can clarify how much protein he's recommending: 30% to 35% protein of daily calories or 30 g more or less than 120 g based on body size - (90 g if a small woman, 120 g if a large man).

In addition, he's eating a nutrient dense, fiber rich diet that includes above ground vegetables, no grains or sugar, exercising, keeping his carbohydrate intake under 50 g carbs to maintain ketosis, and is eating healthy fats in amounts needed to support his daily energy needs and to maintain his weight. For those wishing to lose weight, fat intake is temporarily lessened so the body is burning its fat reserves.

I'm not sure what to think about this, but his review of the research on protein intake is compelling enough for me to try it.

My lean body mass is 100 pounds. (I know this only because I was a skinny kid and young adult. In my early 30's, I began gaining weight and peaked at 180 pounds). My goal is to eat 90 g protein a day. Here's what I eat on a typical day...

Breakfast: 2 slices bacon, 2 eggs, onion, cauliflower, broccoli, mushrooms, gouda cheese with black tea, water, and a small side of fruit/berries.

Lunch: chicken thigh, an ounce of almonds or pecans, medium carrot or a side of kale salad with green tea, water, and a small side of fruit/berries.

Dinner: beef, chicken, or pork, sometimes salmon, a variety of vegetables sauted in butter, with water, sometimes red wine, and a small side of fruit/berries, followed by a cup of chamomile tea.

I include fat with all meals and also eat small amounts of chocolate. I also eat small amounts of root vegetables a few times a week.

I walk 3 to 5 days a week.

To maintain adequate hydration, I carry water everywhere with me in stainless steel containers. I try to drink a cup of water for every cup of tea. When I'm switching over from low carb to ketosis, I drink a cup of hot water with a 1/2 teaspoon of salt every three days or so.

That amounts to 92 protein a day.

I thought increasing my protein intake would be harder. All I changed was eating 2 eggs instead of 1, eating 2 strips of bacon instead of 1 1/2, added meat back into my daily lunch, and increased my meat intake at dinner by an ounce.

Now that I have an android phone, I need to get My Fitness Pal and learn how to use it so I can figure out my macro percentages.
 
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Winnie53

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zand, Brian Mowll, who hosts the annual Diabetes Summit, just started a podcast a few weeks ago. This week he interviewed Will Cole, whose book releases in the US on August 28th,

Ketotarian: The (Mostly) Plant-Based Plan to Burn Fat, Boost Your Energy, Crush Your Cravings, and Calm Inflammation

If you have iTunes, you can listen to the podcast here... Click here now to listen (It's the "Mastering Blood Sugar by Dr. Brian Mowll" podcast).

I'm going there now to listen to it. For a variety of reasons, some do better on a plant based diet, so curious as to what he has to say.
 

Winnie53

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Thanks Indy51 for the Ted Naiman link. I was able to listen to it this afternoon. I was surprised to learn that the average protein intake globally is 15%, average protein intake in the US is 12.5%. Also that the average protein intake for the fattest people is 10 - 12%. I'm not in ketosis yet - (berries are in season right now :) ) - but have already lost 2 pounds, so off to a good start.
 
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ghost_whistler

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This is just my personal experience.

I discovered low carb by accident when I ran out of bread and found that I was less hungry if I didn't eat it. I had never heard of low carbing, LCHF at all. Desperate to lose weight I cut out bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, flour products etc. Sugar had already gone years before because that's the obvious one that we all know about. I was unaware that anyone else was doing this having been very disillusioned by many other diets at the time.

I switched from vegetable oil for frying when I realised how much of it clung to the pan after cooking and figured it was probably doing this to my arteries too. I reverted to lard and butter and whole milk instead of skimmed on my own initiative. I wasn't into listening to other people's advice or experience back then because whatever they advised never seemed to work for me.

To replace the carbs I doubled up on protein. 6 weeks later I was very ill with extremely high blood pressure 240/180. I don't think I drank enough water to deal with the protein.

I may be the only person in the world that this has happened to but my conscience won't let me not post this in case it's relevant to someone else.

I agree that for me protein doesn't cause a blood sugar rise, but just because we are diabetic doesn't mean we don't have a whole lot of other things to think about healthwise. It's no good focussing on blood sugars to the detriment of all other health indicators . I was told I was hours off having a stroke. My BP before my doubling up on protein experiment had been slightly high but that's all.

I know my body won't stand a doubling up of protein, and definitely wouldn't like a ton of it! I believe it is irresponsible to suggest it without also suggesting medical supervision (which of course may have been done later in the podcast/video) I know how important protein is because for years I didn't have enough of it and have suffered from a lack of it, but too much protein can also wreak havoc with my body. That's why I like LCHF, fat is fine, my body can easily double up on healthy fats without a problem.
Are you sure it was the protein that spiked BP?
 

Mbaker

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He is one of top 5, like Jason Fung he says it how he sees it. He also leans towards high intensity exercise which is in my view if you can do it physically provides fitness as well as health.
 
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zand

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Yes I am as sure as I can be that it was the protein as that was the only thing I changed. My kidney function was down to around 60% too. Drinking more water may have helped though.