Leg cramps & Metformin?

[bluevolvoC30]

Thought I was the only one striding 'round the bedroom doing a monty python sketch with bent legs and extended strides.

Blood sugars were way out as I was purposefully trying to loose weight (the wrong way). Consequently with extreme thirst I washed all the salts out of my body. Add this to the fact that we're encouraged not to eat more than a pinch of salt each day so the lack of salt induced leg cramps

...and boy did my lower legs feel like overstretched elastic bands, about to snap.

When I got the cramps (only ever in my legs), I'd grab a handful of peanuts (no CHO) and generously sprinkle them with salt. Cramps gone within 20 secs,. Certainly worked for me!

HOWEVER, try and have a handful of seeds afterwards as these also contain essential nutrients which can combat cramps.
Sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds are irresistible especially if dry fried in a pan.

P.S Got weight under control now and am back on target with blood sugars.

 

[viviennem]

Hi Caz

Thanks for the info on B12. I've just checked my levels at my last blood test (dec '12) and it was 299ng/l. The lab range given is 180 - 2000 - some difference! Think I'll ask a question next time I visit the GP

Viv 8)

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I wouldnt get too stressed about the possibility of a B12 deficiency Viv, although it is possible in reality it is very rare, B12 deficiency shows itself by a lack of red blood cells and if you are having regular blood tests as most diabetics have then it would flag up then.

I got concerned a year or so back having read various scaremongering posts about metformin and b12 deficiency to the point that I printed off some stuff off the Internet and took it to show my doctor, he simply loaded up my blood test results and said " no, your red blood cell count is better than mine", he then explained about anaemia being a system of b12 deficiency, he also told me that it is quite rare even for those taking metformin long term, it is just a possible side effect.

If you, or anyone else is concerned just check your last blood test (if you have the results) or check with your GP, but I stress again if you had a b12 deficiency your GP would have seen it from your blood test results.


I believe the marker to look for is the hemoglobin (HB) concentration which should be between 13.0-18.0 g/dL in adult males and 11.5-16.5 g/dL in adult, non-pregnant females.

If I have got it wrong about the HB being the marker for low red blood count then perhaps some one with medical knowledge can correct me but looking at my last few blood test results I am assuming that is what my doctor would have been looking at.

 

[BaliRob]

I am only too prepared to listen to EVERY suggestion as I am that desperate.

The subject of salt intake invariably comes up quite regularly and I have observed bluevolvoC30's experience/solution
with great interest. Another poster (a lady) often mentions the pinch of salt on her tongue which also cannot be denied.
In my case - when I was able to get to the cupboard in time - the taking of salt did not save me.

For those wishing to know my progress regarding the taking of Sirdalud (muscle relaxant), Neurobion (various vit supps)
and Pletaal (blood circulatory agent) - I am pleased to report that I have not had an horrendous attack since I started
this regimen on the 12th January ultimo. However, the cost of the first and third items is such that I may be driven to
taking the salt cellar to bed with me ha ha ha.

We must try to keep this thread active as there are thousands of sufferers out there.

Regards,

Rob

 

[beercan]

I have type 2 and do not take Metformin as yet, but did get these leg cramps specificaly in the calves and feet.
I was taking Simvastatins which also gave me other problems, so changed to Pravastatins. Since this change I have had no problems with these leg and foot cramps.

 

[BaliRob]

Beercan - I have heard of many muscular problems experienced by people taking Simvastatin - they endorse your findings.

However, in my case I had complete (both) leg cramps from waist to calves long before I was diagnosed with Diabetes and,
of course, before I knew about statins.

To date, whilst I am getting 5% hint of impending cramp at night - so far the drugs in the posting before yours are still
showing promise.

Any comments from other sufferers would be gratefully received.

Rob

 

[HumulinHarry]

Hi, I used to take metformin and did so for around 8 years. Had nothing but problems with my stomach and also with aching limbs. My feet and legs were always painful until I refused to take it anymore. I was given glicazide and that just dropped my levels alarmingly and gave me palpitations. So, now on insulin and although its not perfect, my aches and pains have gone and I don't suffer from stomach trouble. Only thing now is that I have put a little weight on but I am getting more active and hope it deals with the weight.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

To date, whilst I am getting 5% hint of impending cramp at night - so far the drugs in the posting before yours are still
showing promise.

Glad to hear you are getting some relief at last Rob.

@HumulinHarry, welcome to the forum Harry. It is possible to lose weight whilst on insulin, I managed to lose about 4 stone over the course of about 12 months which was enough to reduce my insulin resistance and to allow me to stop using insulin, that was 3 years ago now and I have lost a further stone since then.

I was on a basal bolus routine (from your username I am guessing you are too) and was injecting a long acting insulin before bed to keep my levels down through the night and fast acting insulin before every meal. You need to match your insulin to the food/carbs you eat, too much insulin and you can put weight on and too little insulin and you have high blood glucose levels, so its a bit of a juggling act but if you can get it right you can shift a few pounds. Of course I did eat less food, so you will need to watch the calories as well as the carbs but as I said its perfectly possible :thumbup:

Good luck

 

[BaliRob]

Thx Sid

 

[viviennem]

Thanks, Sid

My haemoglobin concentration is 13.4g/dl, so I guess I'm okay.

The warning about B12 levels - that the accepted norm is in fact too low - comes from the pernicious anaemia website, where it is obviously a concern. Think I'll still run it past my doctor when I see him next. He likes being asked questions .

Viv 8)

 

[Ann Caldwell]

yeah I get that 2 it's so painful and can last for hours. Rght now am fed up I'm eating healthy no rubbish and can't seem to shift weight. can anyone give me advise as the doc thinks I'm telling lies about my diet I've been diabetic for 9 years and know the score but I feel like giving up and just eating what I want grrrr please any advise would be appreciated :sick:

 

[viviennem]

Hi Anne, and welcome.

Daisy1 will be along soon with our Info for the Newly Diagnosed (if she hasn't already), but in the meantime, have a look at the diet I use:

Viv's Modifed Atkins Diet - it's a Sticky Thread in the Low-carb Diet section on the Index page. Have a read through - it's a very-low-carb diet, but very easy to follow 'cos all you do is eat the foods you're allowed to. It suits me very well, but it's too low carb for some people. If this is so for you, get yourself a Carb Counter book (available from Amazon etc) and just add on carbs from Low Glycaemic Index foods until you reach the level you want to eat. Low GI foods work slowly and don't spike your blood glucose too much. Use the diet lists of foods as a basis.

Note: as you increase your carbs, decrease your fat intake a little. Don't be afraid of natural fats - it's the processed ones that are really bad for us.

Many of us Type 2s find that we can't handle anything like the amount of carbohydrates that our Health Care Professionals (HCPs) recommend. I am able to put on weight on less than 100g of carb per day - let alone what it does to my blood glucose levels! :shock: If I follow "my" diet, my blood glucose, blood pressure and cholesterol levels all go down, as well as my weight.

It's worth a try.

Viv 8)

PS Just checked your profile and see you are on insulin. It's possible to low-carb very successfully if you are on insulin, but you have to be very careful about balancing your insulin to your carb intake or you'll have hypos. Maybe ask for help on the Type 1 section? In any case, I wouldn't drop your carbs too drastically to start with, but have a think about the whole idea, and if you're confident about balancing your insulin and carbs, start cutting your carbs gradually. It will help. Insulin can make you fat, as it helps store any excess glucose in your fat cells :shock: Check for low-carbers on the Type 1 threads.

Once you get the balance right, you'll be able to reduce your insulin and maybe come off it altogether, if your pancreas still has some function. One of our members, Sid Bonkers, has done just that, mainly by reducing his portion sizes and eating less. I'm sure he'll be able to help.

 

[daisy1]

Hi Ann and welcome to the forum
Here, at this link, is the information we give to new members, as Viv mentioned, which I hope you will find useful. Ask all the questions you need to and someone will help:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17088

 

[finntasticemma]

I have experienced major pain when I started Metformin. The cramps were so bad and constant that I could bearly walk. GP stopped Metformin and I was back to normal within 3 weeks. Statins can also increase your pain levels so might be worth getting that reviewed by GP.

 

[BaliRob]

I stand corrected regarding my own personal opinion about Metformin not being the causal effect of leg cramps - judging by
finntasticemma's experience. I do hope that his doctor reported this side effect to the 'powers that be' because Metformin has been conclusively held responsible for causing stomach upsets but not leg cramps - notwithstanding the title of this post and, at least, during the time that I have been a member of this Forum.

I am happy to report that I still have not experienced another serious attack since the 12th ultimo whilst on Sirdalud, Neurobion and
Pletaal as described in one of my earlier posts.

 

[GraceK]

I know as I've got older my tendons have shortened, particularly during the night. When I get out of bed in the morning it takes a while for the tendons that keep my toes in place and the achilles at the back of my heel to feel 'normal'. So maybe tendonitis has something to do with muscle cramps too.

Some medications cause the tendons to tighten, which in turn stretches the muscles unnaturally. I had awful problems from an antidepressant called Citalopram. It started with waking up being unable to move my thumbs properly which I thought was strange. Then the tendons at the back of my heels and knees became really tight and I could hardly walk properly because the tendons in my toes wouldn't allow my toes to bend properly. It dawned on me eventually that it was the Citalopram, I came off it and it took about 2 years and 6 months of regular accupuncture for the toxins to leave my body and my tendons and muscles return to normal. Also as we get older calcium deficiency can occur, which also can cause muscle cramps, very severe ones in some cases.

That experience made me very wary of all meds, and I read up on side effects before I take anything now. I've had too many close calls with side effects. I really weigh up the benefits and drawbacks of even TRYING a med and I won't take more than one new med at a time so that I know which meds is causing what side effect. My doc wanted to start me on Simvastatin at the same time as Metformin. Noooooo waaaaaaaaaay. And oddly enough, I've had no probs with Metformin at all yet it seems to upset so many people.

 

[viviennem]

I stand corrected regarding my own personal opinion about Metformin not being the causal effect of leg cramps - judging by
finntasticemma's experience. I do hope that his doctor reported this side effect to the 'powers that be' because Metformin has been conclusively held responsible for causing stomach upsets but not leg cramps - notwithstanding the title of this post and, at least, during the time that I have been a member of this Forum.

I am happy to report that I still have not experienced another serious attack since the 12th ultimo whilst on Sirdalud, Neurobion and
Pletaal as described in one of my earlier posts.

I put a question mark in the title of this thread as a shorthand for "does anyone have any information about . . .?".

I know it's not listed as a known side-effect; I asked because I have never had this sort of "tendon cramps" before in my life, until I went on Metformin. In fact I seldom got or get "ordinary" type Charley Horse cramps in my legs, over my entire 60+ years. It's the correlation between starting the Metformin and getting the cramps that interests me.

The NHS doesn't necessarily get to know about these things unless we, the drug users, report them; witness the muscle & joint pains sometimes caused by statins, which were only admitted to when patients started complaining.

I'm going to discuss the cramps with my GP next time I see him - and tell him off if he offers me quinine sulphate :lol: . I'm glad you haven't had a recurrence, BaliRob.

Viv 8)

 

[diane cordell]

Hi there my name is diane i have alot of leg and toe cramp at night my GP said this is because of the metformin. And also
i have lost two stone since being diagnosed with diabeted.

 

[BaliRob]

Dear Viv,

I spoke too soon having just posted the above yesterday and noticed the signs of impending cramp in my right leg with the lateral muscles at the side of the shin/calf started to pull the leg away from my body at an angle. Also, I noticed a sympathetic reaction in the left leg.

I was able to hobble out of bed and get to the kitchen cupboard and, in desperation, took half a teaspoon (or less I hate salt) on my tongue and within less than 30 minutes the impending doom (ha ha ha) subsided

I consider this to be a success because the 75mg Lyrica tabs that many doctors prescribe for the residual pain left by the cramp and for the damage caused to the tendons (can last up to two days) can have dreadful side effects - 'away with the fairies', loss of balance and short-term memory loss are a stupid price to pay for the relief I feel.

I now have lost confidence in the three drugs mentioned above because, if I had left the condition to progress and just trusted the medication, I would have been seriously ill for a few hours.

Those of you that observe I live in the tropics may say, "Ah, I told you it was the lack of salt causing the cramps" should know that I had this problem for a number of years before leaving West Sussex.

I will cease the meds when finished no matter what the doc says and go back to Magnesium Malate 3 x 1250mg daily and search out
some salt tablets and try one of them when retiring. As the Malate tabs are so big I will eventually try the smaller Magnesium Citrate (??) tabs recommended by other kind contributors to this thread. Also, will keep the salt cellar or a tab by the bed from now on.

I will update my progress (hopefully success) on this subject because I just know that there are sufferers who need definitive science
to improve their quality of life.

 

[GraceK]

Bob ... I've found the salt on the tongue usually works quite well, as does Milk of Magnesia and I've just thought of something else that might be worth a try and I'm going to get some in and try them myself too!

There are replacement 'body salts' that you can buy to replace lost potassium, magnesium, electrolytes etc after a bout of diaorrhea. I know that when our electrolyte balance is lowered and we lose salts like potassium that we get cramps so these replacement salts may be worth a try too, even though you're not suffering from diaorrhea, you may have an electrolyte imbalance caused by other reasons.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2209167_replace ... lytes.html

There's a product called Dioralyte on sale over the counter here for replacement after diaorrhea and another one for after a night out on the drink, and that begins with an R but I can't remember the exact name ... something like Regain or Replen.

Worth a try I would think.