My Two Penny Worth

Frodo27

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
As a n00b to this forum I have decided to share my understanding of some aspects of diabetes, some of which may vary from convention. I am a type 1.5 diabetic (my definition of a type 2 who starts to take insulin) and hopefully will regain type 2 status in the not too distant future.

Apart from those born without pancreatic function (ie those with genetic diabetes) or becoming so due to injury diabetes is a modern disease directly related to sociology. It is both a product of diet and of exercise. Diabetes is a shortening of ‘Diabetes Mellitus’, and interestingly mellitus is Latin and means ‘honey-sweet’ a reference to the urine in diabetics, diabetes itself derives from ‘siphon’ as it was considered a kidney problem that resulted in excess urination. So literally our condition is one of having ‘excessive honey-sweet urine’ J. Despite appalling diets diabetes was not historically the epidemic it is today because of the amount of sugar that was burned in daily activity. This caused the majority of type 2 diabetics to come from the wealthier classes who had far reduced physical activity and more food. The enlightenment period and subsequent advancement of science created changes in society which have reduced activity significantly. Sociology also created an increase in general wealth and the affordability of western societies to abuse diet with refined products, overeating and excess alcohol consumption.

The term ‘fasting’ was used to describe starvation and in the 19th century periodic starvation was used to combat diabetes. Why the term ‘fasting blood sugar level’ is used is a puzzle, because it is not starvation but normal waking level influenced by prior evening glycaemic load, dissipation time and glucose production upon or preceding awakening.

As society is unlikely to allow us to revert to the days of no TV, motor vehicle etc, and given the significant power of the drug companies whose interests lie in their profits rather than our health then we are forced to become deviants if we are to control our man made condition.

So how do we accomplish this? Well, there are five major areas to consider, exercise, diet, alcohol, supplements and water. I’ll take these individually:-

Exercise
I’m not concerned in this article with cardiovascular aspects, only diabetic ones. Exercises such as walking in the fat burning zone are good (60% Max Heart rate) and you will need to do it for at least an hour a day. Go harder if you wish but an enjoyable brisk walk is more sustainable as a daily routine than a gym workout in most cases. The exercise also increases metabolism so you burn more calories after exercising. That makes morning exercise a real winner.

Diet
Avoid dieticians! Yes, they may well be trained with a curriculum manipulated by grain product refiners and others. The way is to learn yourself. Keep a diary with a good online program like ‘myfitnesspal’, I use ‘calorieking’, then you learn exactly what you are eating and can control your diet. The balance is your choice of what is best for you. I go for equal amounts of Carbs, Protein and Fat (12%max saturated) and 40g of fibre a day. Beware of overusing Glycaemic Indexes, they are only a part of the equation. The real factor is Glycaemic Load dissipation, test it yourself using glucose only and get a reading after one hour. Then test with a mix of glucose, psyllium husk and water and see the difference. The ideal eating pattern is six equal meals a day, well not for me. Breakfast like a king, Lunch like a prince and dine like a pauper sets you up for good morning sugar levels, and if the day starts good the rest stands a much better chance.

Alcohol
Just as exercise boosts metabolism Alcohol suppresses it. Alcohol is also full of empty calories and is nothing else but disguised adipose fat. Quit it completely, it is poison.

Supplements
There are some great ones, all natural. Green tea is an excellent antioxidant. Chilli boosts metabolism. Garlic has great health value all round. I do use protein bars to balance my diet at times and I do find them filling.

Water
Over half of our bodies are made of water, top it up. 3 litres a day minimum. Your body will be hydrated, your digestion system flushed, no constipation. I can’t think of any consumable available that outweighs the importance of water.

At the end of the day it’s your choice, abuse yourself and die young or look after yourself.
 
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dawnmc

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
All very succinct and interesting, thankyou
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,655
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. First if you are T1.5 you will not regain T2 in the future; period. T1.5 is where the islet cells are being killed by anti-bodies, viruses etc. They do not recover. T2 is where there is insulin resistance due usually to excess body weight and some recovery is possible. Although alcohol is a poison in sensible quantities i.e. 1 glass or whatever it is not a problem. Many of the things we eat/drink are poisonous if too much is taken e.g. rhubarb, horseradish, green potatoes and so. Your suggestion of 3 litres of water a day won't do any harm but there is no evidence it is necessary either. BTW if you are really a T1.5 then you will gradually find you will need to have less than 1/3 of your food as carbs unless on enough meds as there won't be enough insulin over time to handle that amount
 
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audsital

Well-Known Member
Messages
99
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Not being able to eat carbs!
I agree with Daibell, i have lada or as its also called t1.5 and after being hospitalised for 6 days at diagnosis was on insulin from the onset. Tests have shown my antibodies attacked my pancreas and my doctor said this is a genetic thing and there isn't anything that can be done to reverse it.:(

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 

Garr

Well-Known Member
Messages
360
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
'Apart from those born without pancreatic function or becoming so due to injury diabetes is a modern disease directly related to sociology. It is both a product of diet and of exercise'

Really? Think you need to improve your understanding of diabetes
 
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carty

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,379
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
You really cannot generalize about Diabetes for example I had an extremely healthy diet and life style lots of exercise .I inherited my Diabetes from my mother and nothing will or would have changed that fact
CAROL
 
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Frodo27

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Thank you for your responses.
At the outset I stated that it was "my understanding of some aspects of diabetes, some of which may vary from convention" and each person has a right to form their own understandings and opinions. If they wish to persuade another person that their understanding is incorrect then a successful argument is needed.
Arguing semantics is not useful in the context of treating diabetes. From my perspective once you are on insulin you are a 1.5 and it's as simple as that and most people understand it that way. Now I started off my diary with a morning fasting level of 16.8, taking 180 units of Lantus a day and 90 units of Novarapid. Today it is 5.4, I take 40 units of Lantus and zero Novarapid. I believe that as my weight declines further I will need no insulin at all and will be a type 2 again. Now that is a positive story that gives hope to others that by lifestyle change diabetes can improve. What is gained by decrying my suggestion? Likewise I feel better if I drink 3L of water a day and I believe it contributes to my improvement. Maybe some need less, but what harm is there in drinking more water? Why the need to negate a positive consideration? As for alcohol, you have a right to your opinion, as do I.
I covered genetics in my first lines so need comment no further on that subject.
Garr, if you can't be constructive the playground is at the back of the school.
Carol, Generalisation is cognitively normal, and I have addressed genetics. The major issue is the epidemic and it was not caused by genetics.

This all reminds me of a need to address the subject of the role of psychology in diabetes. It is a very deep subject and I will try and make the time to write it up.
 

Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi Frodo! My dad was born in 1912 and was diagnosed diabetic when he was fifty. All his siblings were diagnosed diabetics likewise. My grandmother, was diabetic too, along with all her siblings. If we went further down into history we would find even more diabetics in my family, none of them over-weight or on a high-sugar diet, mainly just a plain farm-diet.

See what you can do with psychology or sociology on genetics like that. Particularly with me, who has been on a low-carb diet for some years and still was diagnosed diabetic a month ago.

Mind you, the autoimmune varieties may have other causes. Autoimmunity is something else entirely as a cause for disease.
 
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Garr

Well-Known Member
Messages
360
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
'This all reminds me of a need to address the subject of the role of psychology in diabetes. It is a very deep subject and I will try and make the time to write it up'.

Perhaps it would be more constructive to do more reading.
 
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Frodo27

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Garr, please read my comment to you above
Totto, I have covered genetics, I completely understand that those genetically predisposed are in a different class than those my OP was addressing. Neither sociology nor psychology likely influence genetics.
 

Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Thank you for your responses.
At the outset I stated that it was "my understanding of some aspects of diabetes, some of which may vary from convention" and each person has a right to form their own understandings and opinions. If they wish to persuade another person that their understanding is incorrect then a successful argument is needed.
Arguing semantics is not useful in the context of treating diabetes. From my perspective once you are on insulin you are a 1.5 and it's as simple as that and most people understand it that way. Now I started off my diary with a morning fasting level of 16.8, taking 180 units of Lantus a day and 90 units of Novarapid. Today it is 5.4, I take 40 units of Lantus and zero Novarapid. I believe that as my weight declines further I will need no insulin at all and will be a type 2 again. Now that is a positive story that gives hope to others that by lifestyle change diabetes can improve. What is gained by decrying my suggestion? Likewise I feel better if I drink 3L of water a day and I believe it contributes to my improvement. Maybe some need less, but what harm is there in drinking more water? Why the need to negate a positive consideration? As for alcohol, you have a right to your opinion, as do I.
I covered genetics in my first lines so need comment no further on that subject.
Garr, if you can't be constructive the playground is at the back of the school.
Carol, Generalisation is cognitively normal, and I have addressed genetics. The major issue is the epidemic and it was not caused by genetics.

This all reminds me of a need to address the subject of the role of psychology in diabetes. It is a very deep subject and I will try and make the time to write it up.
It is brilliant if you can get your insulin down along with your bg. I am sorry however to disappoint you as to what type of diabetic you may be. The type one is usually diagnosed at a young age and insulin dependent from the start. The type 2 are insulin resistant and usually diagnosed in middle age. Then there is type 1.5 or LADA, an autoimmune variety of diabetes with adult onset.

There are other varieties of diabetes apart from the above. Diabetes, as in honey-tasting urine, is a sign and will end in kidney failure if not treated.

If we keep to a low-carb diet with a high fat content for energy we will do OK, most of us, even the insulin-dependant type 1 and 1.5.

I am sure you will find help in the psychology, but mainly in the low-carbing. Get a monitor of your own so you can test whenever you feel the need and you will be ok.
 
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phoenix

Expert
Messages
5,671
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
T 1 and LADA (AKA 1,5 in some places ) are both autoimmune. (and appear to share genetic features) They aren't type 2s who have become insulin dependent and will require insulin for life. They are most often of normal weight when diagnosed, in fact in many cases very thin because of the effect of the lack of insulin. They are insulin sensitive so they don't't normally take anything like the dose that you were taking at the start.
Starvation was indeed used to prolong the lives of T1 before insulin. It didn't work for long for people with T1 or what we would call LADA or 1.5 today. The children would survive for a very short time and die from starvation or DKA, the adults up to a few years.

MODY (another thing sometimes called 1.5) is one of number of distinctive genetic mutations. it is directly inherited, if you have it your children will have 50% chance of also having it) There are many other conditions that are genetic and lead to diabetes. Strangely those who are born with diabetes or acquire it in the first 6 months of life most probably have a form of MODY but may do just fine on some oral drugs
.
T2 will have a lot of variants and is in fact also genetic, how heritable it is (ie how much is caused by environment and how much by genes) is extremely variable.
You also might like to read about epigenetics , Basically these are changes outside the genome that effect the way the genes are expressed. This probably has a big influence on T2
One extreme example is the Dutch Famine.
http://www.news.leiden.edu/news/dutch-hunger-winter.html
This wiki article further explains the epigenetics of T2 but is not easy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics_of_diabetes_Type_2

Basically, it isn't that simple and you can't lump everyone together.
 
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mrman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,419
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Thank you for your responses.
At the outset I stated that it was "my understanding of some aspects of diabetes, some of which may vary from convention" and each person has a right to form their own understandings and opinions. If they wish to persuade another person that their understanding is incorrect then a successful argument is needed.
Arguing semantics is not useful in the context of treating diabetes. From my perspective once you are on insulin you are a 1.5 and it's as simple as that and most people understand it that way. Now I started off my diary with a morning fasting level of 16.8, taking 180 units of Lantus a day and 90 units of Novarapid. Today it is 5.4, I take 40 units of Lantus and zero Novarapid. I believe that as my weight declines further I will need no insulin at all and will be a type 2 again. Now that is a positive story that gives hope to others that by lifestyle change diabetes can improve. What is gained by decrying my suggestion? Likewise I feel better if I drink 3L of water a day and I believe it contributes to my improvement. Maybe some need less, but what harm is there in drinking more water? Why the need to negate a positive consideration? As for alcohol, you have a right to your opinion, as do I.
I covered genetics in my first lines so need comment no further on that subject.
Garr, if you can't be constructive the playground is at the back of the school.
Carol, Generalisation is cognitively normal, and I have addressed genetics. The major issue is the epidemic and it was not caused by genetics.

This all reminds me of a need to address the subject of the role of psychology in diabetes. It is a very deep subject and I will try and make the time to write it up.

Sounds like you was type 2, you have not become 1.5 simply because you started insulin, more like that you were increasingly becoming insulin resistant, especially injecting that quantity. By loosing weight/exercising etc you may well repair some of the damage and continue to become more sensitive to your own insulin, thus needing less injected.
Type 1s/1.5s cannot produce any/enough insulin full stop, can't be "cured" reversed, if body cannot make insulin then they have to inject it, no other way.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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Frodo27

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Good posts, Totto and Phoenix, thank you.
You see I'm not really interested in modern day terminology, I'm interested in helping people from my own experiences. Genetics are not part of my subject, the epidemic is! It is correctly pointed out that starvation was not effective with type 1's, just as cigarette smoking was not a cure for lung disease. The medical professionals get is wrong so often (not as often as Wiki though) and I prefer my definition of 1.5 to theirs as it addresses the major addressable problem and differentiates between those taking insulin and not. Please feel free to ignore my posts if they offend you.
Pray tell me why I need advice on my diet with perfect readings four times a day.

And psychology is a major cause of diabetes. Is it not better to address the cause than band aid the symptoms?
 

paul-1976

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,695
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Dishonesty
I may be what is considered a 'Fruitloop' to some I'm sure and they may have a point (Ask me if I care)but I'm pretty confident in that my development of Autoimmune type 1.5 diabetes along with Autoimmune Crohns disease and Autoimmune psoriasis that 'Psychology' was not a factor in my developing the conditions.
 
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Totto

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,831
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If you told us about your own psychological problem I am sure it would help us understand what you mean?

As to diet, check out the low-carb section. Or other LCHF sites, there is a host of them.

As to terminology I find it is so much easier if we agree on it, and you seem to have found your own definitions regarding type 2 and 1.5, Please read up on the different types here on the forum, and we can discuss the definitions then.
 
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Frodo27

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Don't attack the person, Totto.

I know the brainwashed definitions and Wiki is not my bible.

Now I gave five areas that I feel are needed to address the epidemic. Please concentrate on those and not attacking a person trying to help the community. It's about diabetes and not your ego.
 

Beachbag

Well-Known Member
Messages
688
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Filling in forms! ;)
Sorry but I am a bit confused..... In your profile you say you take byetta and metformin. Is that the same as lantus which is what you say you now take? I'm insulin dependant type 2 and don't agree that because I'm on insulin I am 1.5... However, each to his own.
 
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