pre-diabetes, fasting blood sugars.

[ironny]

Hi, I need advice please on fasting blood glucose levels and HbA1c readings. I have been pre-diabetic for 3 years and in January this year decided to try to achieve 'normality' through a low carb. diet. My readings in January were 43 and 6.1. My recent Hb1Ac results were 42 and 6.0, so down a little. I wonder what else I can do for better results?
I used a CGM for two weeks over the summer to help me monitor and keep my blood glucose stable. I now use a finger prick test and can also keep my levels stable during the day. HOWEVER, my fasting blood glucose is never stable. I usually finish eating by 21.30 and test 10 - 12 hours later. Levels have ranged between 5.5 (which I would be happy with), and 6.8 over the past 10 days, with most at more than 6.5. I cannot see a pattern with these readings and grammes of carbs eaten, exercising before or after the test, or anything else. An earlier post on this thread mentioned leaving 4 hours between food and bedtime, which I have not tried. I would welcome other suggestions. As well as the 4 hour tip, might cutting carbs to 50g a day help?
I am 72, of a low weight with a normal level of visceral fat, so nothing to lose, and walk or work out daily. I track my food and nutrients and tried 3 months of under 120g carbs and since April have stuck to under 100g. I am on medication for hypertension and on post breast cancer drugs, plus immunosuppressive medication for psoriasis. The GPs I see are not worried about my health as I am not diabetic. I sleep well and am not overtly stressed and love my life in retirement.

 

[LivingLightly]

Hello @ironny Your numbers are none too shabby, so you don't need to make drastic changes.

Most finger-prickers check their fasting blood glucose [FBG] readings as soon as we get out of bed, because BG levels rise once we start to move around. That's normal and a modest rise is to be expected.

A difference of 10-12 hours is bound to give a range of results, so try to test at near enough the same time each day, otherwise you're comparing apples with pears.

Eating earlier in the evening is one approach that has worked wonders for some of us here. Why not give it a try after Christmas? What have you got to lose?

 

[KennyA]

Hi, I need advice please on fasting blood glucose levels and HbA1c readings. I have been pre-diabetic for 3 years and in January this year decided to try to achieve 'normality' through a low carb. diet. My readings in January were 43 and 6.1. My recent Hb1Ac results were 42 and 6.0, so down a little. I wonder what else I can do for better results?
I used a CGM for two weeks over the summer to help me monitor and keep my blood glucose stable. I now use a finger prick test and can also keep my levels stable during the day. HOWEVER, my fasting blood glucose is never stable. I usually finish eating by 21.30 and test 10 - 12 hours later. Levels have ranged between 5.5 (which I would be happy with), and 6.8 over the past 10 days, with most at more than 6.5. I cannot see a pattern with these readings and grammes of carbs eaten, exercising before or after the test, or anything else. An earlier post on this thread mentioned leaving 4 hours between food and bedtime, which I have not tried. I would welcome other suggestions. As well as the 4 hour tip, might cutting carbs to 50g a day help?
I am 72, of a low weight with a normal level of visceral fat, so nothing to lose, and walk or work out daily. I track my food and nutrients and tried 3 months of under 120g carbs and since April have stuck to under 100g. I am on medication for hypertension and on post breast cancer drugs, plus immunosuppressive medication for psoriasis. The GPs I see are not worried about my health as I am not diabetic. I sleep well and am not overtly stressed and love my life in retirement.

Numbers don't seem too bad at all. The other factor is that othings other than food will affect your Bg. The main one is your liver trickle feeding glucose when it thinks you need it: this is usually very evident in the morning. But things like stress, adrenaline, illness, or outside temperature can all affect your BG largely because the liver responds to these by releasing nore glucose. If you have a look on the internet, there are plenty of examples of CGM graphs generated by non-diabetics. Their blood glucose is very far from stable and rises and falls as you wouild expect. The only difference in most is that the non-D rises are not quite so high and the falls are maybe a bit quicker.

I needed to reduce carbs mainly to get my BG under control, and 20g/day worked very quickly for me. That level also over the last four years has produced weight loss of around 30kg. If someone did want to reduce BG, but not lose weight, they would have to be eating enough fats and proteins so that the body doesn't use its fat stores. This isn't an exact science and we each seem to have different experiences: so it might be a case of try things for a few weeks and see what happens.

If you have a glucometer you can monitor your levels before and at +2hrs after eating. You are looking for the second reading to be within 2mmol/l of the first, and not to be above 7.8 - this shows you how well you cope with the carb/glucose load in what you ate. It is definitely not about "how high you go" - it is about how efficiently your body deals with the normal rise in blood glucose after a (with-carb) meal.

 

[ironny]

Thanks to you both, I now have a few things to try.

 

[Thornliebank]

Hi everyone ,
yesim confused to reading been generally been going up since got down to pre diabetic ,
last night I tried a Keto dinner and went down to 6
this am test 7.5 ?
just don’t get it .
fasting blood test Tuesday so see what that says.
have a good day everyone

 

[LivingLightly]

Hi everyone ,
yes im confused too reading been generally been going up since got down to pre diabetic ,
last night I tried a Keto dinner and went down to 6
this am test 7.5 ?
just don’t get it .
fasting blood test Tuesday so see what that says.
have a good day everyone

Hello @Thornliebank.

You’ll learn most from blood glucose levels just before you start a meal and then two hours later. The post-meal reading should be no more than 2 mmol/l higher than the first and not higher than 8 mmol/l. If that's the case, your body dealt with the arrival of glucose in your bloodstream and cleared it relatively quickly.

If you can achieve that consistently (by reducing your carbohydate intake where necessary), your FBG levels first thing in the morning should gradually fall, but those readings are often the last to come down.

 

[Thornliebank]

Thanks living lightly

 

[littlebrownbird]

Hello! I've just tipped into the pre-diabetic range (45 mmol/L) having kept it under control for the past 4 years or so. I have been referred to the NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme (Liva) and I'm looking forward to speaking to my health coach this Friday.

I also have a Libre 3 CGM, as I find it useful to see what's going on with my BG. I'm also overweight - BMI 32.3 - My BP is on the high side, so I have a call with the clinical pharmacist at my GP surgery tomorrow too.

Does anyone have experience with the NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme (Liva)? What do you think of it and have you achieved the improvements you wanted?

 

[ajbod]

I've a sneaking suspicion, it will push the Eatwell plate, and exercise and the misery of calorie restriction. It will probably work for a fair proportion of those doing it, until it ends.
As you have a Libre log what you eat and what happens, that way you will very quickly work out what NOT to eat. I think it's a safe bet it will be what the LIVA app tells you to eat.
Many of us here adopted a low carb approach, ie avoiding eating the very things that raise our blood sugars. This leads to usually rapid weight loss, much lower blood sugars, reduced blood pressure, and frequently reduced Cholesterol levels.
Rather than take our advice, why not check out a few doctors, and what they have to say.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoyL4iGArWn5Hu0V_sAhK2w

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3vzrYZcGqpgchc5sYM5Ybw/videos

There are a host more than these.
try this one written by one of our own number, and essential reading.

https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.htm

 

[littlebrownbird]

Thanks @ajbod - I kinda suspected that may be the case.

I love Dr. David Unwin - I was a member of the phcuk.org so I'll take a look at their resources and the LC ones on DietDoctor.com. Need to get my LC ducks in a row

 

[Helen H]

Hi @littlebrownbird - do you mean the Oviva online program? If yes, then I am on it - almost 3 months done so far. To be honest i thought they wouldn’t support my dietary choice of keto but they have. I have found a lot of the “lessons” to not be anything I didn’t know but I do have a reasonable amount of medical knowledge so accept that it will be helpful to a lot of people - some of it is very basI common sense in my opinion. I have found that the health coaches tend to quote from a script so to speak although some of it is personalised. You have to log meals, fluid intake, BG readings and you can chose other things to log - this does help to keep you accountable I feel. I will see it through if only to show GP etc that I take this seriously and am doing everything in my power to prevent it developing into full blown type 2.

 

[littlebrownbird]

Hi @littlebrownbird - do you mean the Oviva online program? If yes, then I am on it - almost 3 months done so far. To be honest i thought they wouldn’t support my dietary choice of keto but they have. I have found a lot of the “lessons” to not be anything I didn’t know but I do have a reasonable amount of medical knowledge so accept that it will be helpful to a lot of people - some of it is very basI common sense in my opinion. I have found that the health coaches tend to quote from a script so to speak although some of it is personalised. You have to log meals, fluid intake, BG readings and you can chose other things to log - this does help to keep you accountable I feel. I will see it through if only to show GP etc that I take this seriously and am doing everything in my power to prevent it developing into full blown type 2.

Sorry for not replying sooner @Helen H The program I'm on is Liva. I'm doing okay - not much weight loss but building muscle due to strength training at the gym 3 times a week and daily walks of up to 6km.

I've been following a low-carb approach but need to up my healthy fats again as my meals, though healthy, are not satiating. I also requested a GP HbA1c test and they won't retest until I'm 6 months into the 9 month program. I'm going to pay and get my own done as I need to know if I'm making progress or not. My BP is down so I expect my other markers are moving in the right direction.

 

[Mallyman]

Since I started interval fasting and do a tri-monthly 3 day fast, my readings have stabilised in the non diabetic range. I no longer get morning syndrome. I sleep better. I cut all industrial sugars. All fresh foods. I even make my own baked beans in my own tomato sauce. Coconut oil, blackseed oil. Spelt. I cook rice and Spelt pasta with mct oil. Believe me it works. I use my own herbs and spices now. Celtic sea salt, fresh curcuma, cinnemon, black pepper.Clove and cinnamon tea is very good. Amazing is drying garlic slices and chilli's, adding dried, rosemary, coriander, thyme, origano and basil and using it in sauces. Gravy from old peelings and the scrapings from the pan of a day slow roasted pork joint. Its far better than packet rubbish. The trick is clearing the build up of sugars in your liver. Then staying off them.

 

[littlebrownbird]

Since I started interval fasting and do a tri-monthly 3 day fast, my readings have stabilised in the non diabetic range. I no longer get morning syndrome. I sleep better. I cut all industrial sugars. All fresh foods. I even make my own baked beans in my own tomato sauce. Coconut oil, blackseed oil. Spelt. I cook rice and Spelt pasta with mct oil. Believe me it works. I use my own herbs and spices now. Celtic sea salt, fresh curcuma, cinnemon, black pepper.Clove and cinnamon tea is very good. Amazing is drying garlic slices and chilli's, adding dried, rosemary, coriander, thyme, origano and basil and using it in sauces. Gravy from old peelings and the scrapings from the pan of a day slow roasted pork joint. Its far better than packet rubbish. The trick is clearing the build up of sugars in your liver. Then staying off them.

Would you say spelt pasta is better than lentil pasta?

 

[Mallyman]

Would you say spelt pasta is better than lentil pasta?

Personally I think Lentil Pasta is vile. Yes it has slightly less carbs and more protein, but fir me the taste is just bot mine. I also find they go mushy after the cooling and reheating process they also go mushy in a more fluid sauce, but each to their own. I get my protein in other ways. I use rice protein for shakes and in other food, as well as the pasta sauce. For me it is the cooking with oil in the water and letting it go fridge cold. This cuts down both carbs and calories. Especially so in rice. This I tested myself. With the process and without. With oil and cold did not spike my BGL. However 1. We are different people with differing physique and fitness and medical issues. You need to be mindful of that in the first instance. 2. Trust is gleaned by researching the studies yourself. Dont just listen to stories. 3. Doctors earn from Pharma. Some are more prone to push meds rather than diet and fitness. So be discerning. The biggest effect ist fasting in my opinion.

 

[Omar51]

Personally I think Lentil Pasta is vile. Yes it has slightly less carbs and more protein, but fir me the taste is just bot mine. I also find they go mushy after the cooling and reheating process they also go mushy in a more fluid sauce, but each to their own. I get my protein in other ways. I use rice protein for shakes and in other food, as well as the pasta sauce. For me it is the cooking with oil in the water and letting it go fridge cold. This cuts down both carbs and calories. Especially so in rice. This I tested myself. With the process and without. With oil and cold did not spike my BGL. However 1. We are different people with differing physique and fitness and medical issues. You need to be mindful of that in the first instance. 2. Trust is gleaned by researching the studies yourself. Dont just listen to stories. 3. Doctors earn from Pharma. Some are more prone to push meds rather than diet and fitness. So be discerning. The biggest effect ist fasting in my opinion.

Personally I think the best pasta is no pasta, it’s worked well for me for a long time. I am pre for over 14 years without taking any medicine. Thanks for posting useful information!

 

[Mallyman]

Personally I think the best pasta is no pasta, it’s worked well for me for a long time. I am pre for over 14 years without taking any medicine. Thanks for posting useful information!

You're welcome. I followed on from my time on dialysis. 11.5 years. There I was told, one can eat everything, just be sensible. By cutting all supposed high carb foods out, we also limit our range of micronutrients. It's a psychological issue too. I am in control. Not the disease.

 

[Thornliebank]

Personally I think the best pasta is no pasta, it’s worked well for me for a long time. I am pre for over 14 years without taking any medicine. Thanks for posting useful information!

Forgive my ignorance , but what is rice protein ?
im trying very hard to not eat rice or potatoes , but need a substitute

 

[Mallyman]

Forgive my ignorance , but what is rice protein ?
im trying very hard to not eat rice or potatoes , but need a substitute

Rice Protein is as it states, the extracted protein from rice. It has 5g Fat, 6g Carbs (0% Sugar) and 85g Protein per 100g. It is low cholesterol and lowers triglycerides. I use it as I do weight training and need at least 150g of protein per day to keep muscle growth and stip muscle waste when not training.

It is information I gleaned myself. Not from my Diabetes Dietician. So without always eating meat, I get my daily rate in.

Rice and potatoes can be calorie and carb lowered by a process of breaking down the starch to become inedible. Cook potatoes with thr skins, then let them go cold in a fridge. Best over 12 hours. With Rice; the same, but add a teaspoon of coconut oil to the water to boil it in. This is where Rice should be cooked by soaking the water cooked in completely. It then soaks in the oil, breaking down the carbs even more. You will not taste the oil. Then let it cool as above. Pasta is the same. By cooling you change the starch which is carbs to mostly inedible. You can put oil in but it will not all be soaked in, but your pasta will not stick.

The biggest problem in diets is not enough is explained about micronutrients. By not eating all foods, we can miss out on the nutrients we need that can be digested depending on how it is prepared, without worrying about carbs. My golden rules are

Try to eat everything responsibly.
Stop eating processed sugar and too much fruit. Most fruit is now modified to have too much fructose. Honey and dates are OK. But again in small doses. I have no pets so also use Beech Tree Sugar too. Often called Zylitol. It is, like Maple syrup, natural, but this is processed to crystals. Has carbs but no sugar at all.
Stop using processed foods. If your health is worth it, spend more on fresh foodstuffs.
Fitness every day. Even a long walk. The more the better, the more intensive the better.
Interval fasting 8/16 is good. I eat from 1000 to 1800 then stop. Then I do a 3 day fast every 3 months.
Use herbs and spices. Cinnemon, ginger, cloves, turmeric are all good at reducing bloodsugar.

However, I can do what I do because of intense exercise and fasting. Not everyone can or will.