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Reversing Diabetes Online Summit

I think we need to be more objective with this. When people talk about being "cured" of T2D, I'd like to see some evidence - an OGTT would be ideal.

I could easily say that I'm "cured" with a HbA1c that has never been greater than 5.0% in the last 2.5 years. But I know if I started eating carbs, my BG would go through the ceiling.
 
borofergie said:
I think we need to be more objective with this. When people talk about being "cured" of T2D, I'd like to see some evidence - an OGTT would be ideal.

I could easily say that I'm "cured" with a HbA1c that has never been greater than 5.0% in the last 2.5 years. But I know if I started eating carbs, my BG would go through the ceiling.
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Exactly!
I could make some b*llsh*t claim that because I have been controlling my carbs for years, I have never developed diabetes.
Put me on a med-high carb diet, and my glucose levels would shoot up.
 
mo1905 said:
It's great that you've healed yourself but please avoid sweeping statements that everything can be cured with the mind and to ignore doctors and medication. There are many here that have no choice but to take insulin or a variety of other meds to stay well and alive. If you have specific advice, that's cool but don't assume what worked for you will work for all. Thanks, Mo
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I hear your concerns and for that reason I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not talking about healing yourself with the mind. I am talking about observing the mind to gain information / thoughts / ideas that can give a clue to the why of the biology. Issues need to be addressed. Secondly I have NEVER said to anyone in my life to ignore their doctor. I am saying listen to your doctor and take your medication as long as you need to take it but at the same time you can take measures, which in the long term can help you get well.

You are right that what can work for one person may not work for others. For that reason I have suggested to people to first keep a diary and examine their own thoughts and emotions and any other bodiliy reactivity. Only when they themselves can see their own experiences can they make choices that will lead to changes and better health.

I take you criticism as constructive and as an opportunity to make clear that I am in agreement with you.
 
Wow I read these links yesterday, then went looking around Youtube at different links at reversing Diabetes type 2 plus the effects of Metformin and Simvastatin. And the research out there done by accredited Professionals. Well worth a look.
Thank you for opening my eyes. I have refused medication in favour of a healthier diet and lifestyle, and feel loads better. You need to make your own decisions it is never a case of what suits 1 suits all.
 
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kyrani99 said:
I hear your concerns and for that reason I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not talking about healing yourself with the mind. I am talking about observing the mind to gain information / thoughts / ideas that can give a clue to the why of the biology. Issues need to be addressed. Secondly I have NEVER said to anyone in my life to ignore their doctor. I am saying listen to your doctor and take your medication as long as you need to take it but at the same time you can take measures, which in the long term can help you get well.

You are right that what can work for one person may not work for others. For that reason I have suggested to people to first keep a diary and examine their own thoughts and emotions and any other bodiliy reactivity. Only when they themselves can see their own experiences can they make choices that will lead to changes and better health.

I take you criticism as constructive and as an opportunity to make clear that I am in agreement with you.
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" I now realize that both diabetes and cancer are reversible because both are dependent on epigenetic changes to various genes and those are deliberate changes."

This sort of information is totally misleading.

"people DO NOT GET WELL BY DOCTORS AND THEIR DRUGS.. that’s DATA!"

So is that, as I said before, refrain from these sort of statements. Some people follow holistic approaches to medicine and are strong believers in the power of the mind, which is fine, but it's not always a cure and should not replace conventional treatment where required.
 
[QUOTE="kyrani99, post: 522012, member: 104710. What pill cures you from a knife in the back, and most often from some “loved one”?

No pill is needed you simply need to forgive them.
 
zand said:
[QUOTE="kyrani99, post: 522012, member: 104710. What pill cures you from a knife in the back, and most often from some “loved one”?

No pill is needed you simply need to forgive them.
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And that is going to stop them or cure you? I've never seen it. The toxic person gets pleasure seeing the suffering of another. Forgiving them only gives them an open opportunity to do more harm. You have to deal with the situation and most often getting out of the toxic relationship if possible.
 
kyrani99 said:
And that is going to stop them or cure you? I've never seen it. The toxic person gets pleasure seeing the suffering of another. Forgiving them only gives them an open opportunity to do more harm. You have to deal with the situation and most often getting out of the toxic relationship if possible.
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You stop suffering when you forgive them, then they gain no pleasure in seeing you have become stronger because of them. Win, win situation
 
borofergie said:
I think we need to be more objective with this. When people talk about being "cured" of T2D, I'd like to see some evidence - an OGTT would be ideal.

I could easily say that I'm "cured" with a HbA1c that has never been greater than 5.0% in the last 2.5 years. But I know if I started eating carbs, my BG would go through the ceiling.
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My last OGTT was 5.5 after 2hrs and Hba1c was 37 (5.5).
I have no idea if this is 100% true but perhaps I was hugely insulin resistant due to lugging around 30kg or so of fat around my middle and in my liver ( NAFLD), this increased fasting bloods to 6.5 - 7.5 this drove my diagnosis Hba1c to 7.1. Now most of that weight is lost (105kg to 78kg this morning). I was diagnosed with a routine blood test and was symptomless so I probably never had any major problem with insulin secretion? So my blood glucose is in the main normal(ish) and I would expect to have better readings now as it has been a year since my last test and I have lost another 5kg or so and become much more active. Also when I look back a snack for me may have been 3/4 bowls of honey nut cereal every night before bed approx 150-200g carbs , so it wasn't surprising blood glucose levels were bad.:facepalm:
 
borofergie said:
I think we need to be more objective with this. When people talk about being "cured" of T2D, I'd like to see some evidence - an OGTT would be ideal.

I could easily say that I'm "cured" with a HbA1c that has never been greater than 5.0% in the last 2.5 years. But I know if I started eating carbs, my BG would go through the ceiling.
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It's a good idea. Returning to the Prof Taylor studies / Newcastle Diet, I suspect that the people on that diet would score 'normal' on an OGTT. The reason being that IF Taylor is correct about the etiology, once T2 is reversed by radical caloric restriction the only remaining organic condition is a slight insulin resistance in the muscle tissue. The dominant insulin resistance and impaired beta cell function originating in hepatic fat is gone. He didn't do the OGTT and he might be wrong, but it would be a very interesting test.

If they 'passed' the OGTT you then want to move the goalposts and say "if the cured person ate pie and chips for a year would T2 come back?". Hope you would not! :)

I think that would be unfair and meaningless. If T2 can be eliminated and kept at bay, it's splitting hairs not to call that cured. The Taylor argument is that T2 has a reversible causation. If you remove the causation it goes away. If you repeat the causation it comes back. Saying that's not a cure would be like saying my broken arm isn't cured because if I put it under a bus, it will break again.
 
I would quite like to see the original post by @kyrani99 that was apparently deleted. She is arguing reasonably and moderately even if some of her claims are pretty extreme. I thought mo's response was good - posters should report their own experience but probably not make 'one size fits all' sweeping claims of what does work or what doesn't work 'for everybody/anybody'.
 
zand said:
You stop suffering when you forgive them, then they gain no pleasure in seeing you have become stronger because of them. Win, win situation
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This is absurd. You don't top suffering when you forgive the person who is beating/ maltrieating your while they are beating you/ matreating you band with no intention to stop what they are doing, ecause that is what we are talking about.
 
Spiker said:
If they 'passed' the OGTT you then want to move the goalposts and say "if the cured person ate pie and chips for a year would T2 come back?". Hope you would not! :)
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OGTT is fairly brutal. But honestly if he wants to say cured, then they need to have a normal BG response to a regular diet. However, the OGTT is a standard diagnostic tool and - together with HbA1c - is the most obvious measure of diabetic control.

Just one off would be good enough - I'd hope that having been through the diabeetus once that no-one would be silly enough to catch it twice.

Remember, the goal posts that the medical community set for "normal" HbA1c are set fairly wide - HbA1c of 6.5% (or something). When they say "cured" they don't mean "back to normal". I'd bet most of the Newcastle Diet survivors wouldn't pass the OGTT, but then I'm cynical about everything ;)
 
kyrani99 said:
This is absurd. You don't top suffering when you forgive the person who is beating/ maltrieating your while they are beating you/ matreating you band with no intention to stop what they are doing, ecause that is what we are talking about.
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It's not absurd. Zand is talking about the internal suffering and that's exactly how you eliminate it, by letting it go. Of course if there is objective harm being done to you still by another party... what are you still doing in that situation? Time to leave. Remaining in an abusive situation, that is absurd.
 
borofergie said:
OGTT is fairly brutal. But honestly if he wants to say cured, then they need to have a normal BG response to a regular diet.
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He uses the word 'reversal' which is probably a carefully chosen alternative to 'cure', I suspect.

borofergie said:
However, the OGTT is a standard diagnostic tool and - together with HbA1c - is the most obvious measure of diabetic control.

Just one off would be good enough - I'd hope that having been through the diabeetus once that no-one would be silly enough to catch it twice.
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Agreed!
 
Medical definition of a "cure" is prolonged absence of signs or symptoms of said condition. How long prolonged absence is can be debated forever.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/healt...800-calories-a-day-can-cure-diabetes-in-weeks

This 5year trial started in April, I believe

"new £2.4million medical trial of almost 300 people with obesity-induced diabetes.

Professor Roy Taylor, of Newcastle University, who led the study, said: “We demonstrated that by changing calorie intake we could change fat levels in the liver and pancreas and return insulin production to normal.

“The new study is to see whether GPs can use this approach to reverse diabetes in their patients and whether it will stay reversed. The evidence is that it will, but we need a large-scale trial to prove that it works.”

Professor Taylor, and Professor Mike Lean, from Glasgow University, will be jointly overseeing the new trial."
 
I
mo1905 said:
Medical condition of a "cure" is prolonged absence of signs or symptoms of said condition. How long prolonged absence is can be debated forever.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
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I've always found the wording around diabetes strange but I have no answers. I would prefer remission rather than cure. However this kind of thinking would mean my twin brother who has never been over 8 1/2 stone and is active all day would be classed as diabetic as he shares the same genes as myself and if he slows down in later life he will, like me, get diabetes? However if he doesn't , he won't. So is he in remission at the moment or is he not diabetic? But if my glucose tolerance is as normal as his now then how do I have diabetes? We're identical after all.
Obesity has very severe consequences and statistically almost all who lose weight will regain more than they lost so do we say to someone who has gone to normal bmi from obese that they are still obese and statistically they will eventually lose control of their obesity and regain weight? No we don't we say "well done you did a great job" and some of them never regain the weight and prove the statistics are not for everyone.
 
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