Type 2 Reversing type 2

[poemagraphic]

Oooooh. Let's not do shouting @poemagraphic please.

I want to shout from the roof tops at times. says the quite voice of reason.

 

[poemagraphic]

We stopped by our favourite chippie last week and I managed to maintain my bloodsugar levels at a decent level by "unpacking" the fish from the batter, ordering salad instead of chips, and having 3 or 4 of my partners chips instead. It wasn't quite like the "real" old-style fish and chips I used to enjoy so much, but I was able to be quite restrained, drink a fizzy water instead of the usual coke, and still enjoy myself. Good result - no big fluctuation in BG levels.

I do a similar thing at the kabab shop... chicken kabab, salad, no pitta bread, no sauce. I have my own sugar free sauce at home

 

[DCUKMod]

I want to shout from the roof tops at times. says the quite voice of reason.

As someone on here's profile says, it's only easy when you know how. None of us knew how before we got here, or we wouldn't have bothered dropping in.

 

[poemagraphic]

As someone on here's profile says, it's only easy when you know how. None of us knew how before we got here, or we wouldn't have bothered dropping in.

I wish I had a plane and could spell, then I would do some sky writing right across our green and pleasant land.

Note to self... You get more results with a carrot than a stick

 

[Mbaker]

I found it really easy to drop my carbs and stop eating the items on that list of things to avoid.... If you do not know what that list includes, You may like to look it up!
Then look up all the amazing things you CAN saftly eat and enjoy! Then stick to it for better health well being.
You!, yes you perhaps need to know this list inside out.
BTW Guzzler this comment was not aimed at you.... I just can not understand how people do not take a little time to eduacte themselves... It is there life I guess.

Even with education, people like choice, which is why people still smoke.

I notice you are from a technical background, like me. I have an unproven theory that engineering types are almost robotic in the way we process and act on information, which may make compliance to a proven regime easier - just a theory.

 

[bulkbiker]

Even with education, people like choice, which is why people still smoke.

I notice you are from a technical background, like me. I have an unproven theory that engineering types are almost robotic in the way we process and act on information, which may make compliance to a proven regime easier - just a theory.

I should have been an engineer then.. career missed...

 

[Oldvatr]

Even with education, people like choice, which is why people still smoke.

I notice you are from a technical background, like me. I have an unproven theory that engineering types are almost robotic in the way we process and act on information, which may make compliance to a proven regime easier - just a theory.

I think we just get used to working within specifications, and this conditions us with a kind of clarity and purpose with attendant disciplines, I used to generate specifications and test plans for a living and ended up proofing for other companies to iron out any flaws and omissions in their work. It made me quite pedantic, so I suppose it shows in my postings here,

 

[Stephen Lewis]

Your reply interests me as after 17 years of a low carb/low GI diet with loads of high intensity exercise my numbers are now going up and I reckon I am borderline to going on meds. I don't feel I can do anymore. I keep finding new (to me) natural substances like Amla which when I first start taking improves my Hba1c but over time the effect wears off. I have no symptoms and according to the diabetic nurse I keep up a good lifestyle.

I agree with @Resurgam. I tried low GI last year before I heard about low carb. All it did was to spread a medium-high bg over a longer period. I do not like spikes but I prefer a high of 9.5 an hour after a meal then down to 7.5 an hour later than 8.5 for 5 or 6 hours that I was getting with the low GI. I think this indicates that my pancreas can react to a spike but not to a steady stream of carbs. You may be different.

 

[Stephen Lewis]

We stopped by our favourite chippie last week and I managed to maintain my bloodsugar levels at a decent level by "unpacking" the fish from the batter, ordering salad instead of chips, and having 3 or 4 of my partners chips instead. It wasn't quite like the "real" old-style fish and chips I used to enjoy so much, but I was able to be quite restrained, drink a fizzy water instead of the usual coke, and still enjoy myself. Good result - no big fluctuation in BG levels.

Trouble is the batter is my favourite part! Shame that no-one has invented a low carb batter or that frying the flour would kill the carbs. (Like my little alliteration?)

 

[Oldvatr]

I agree with @Resurgam. I tried low GI last year before I heard about low carb. All it did was to spread a medium-high bg over a longer period. I do not like spikes but I prefer a high of 9.5 an hour after a meal then down to 7.5 an hour later than 8.5 for 5 or 6 hours that I was getting with the low GI. I think this indicates that my pancreas can react to a spike but not to a steady stream of carbs. You may be different.

Insulin response has at least 2 different phases. Stage 1 is triggered by amylase enzyme in the mouth reacting to sugar and as it were predigesting it before it hits the stomach after swallowing. This in turn triggers Stage 1 Response which is a fast acting shot of insulin designed to deal with glucose intake. It is short lived compared to stage 2 which deals with the long term bump due to general carb digestion, There may be a stage 3 associated with proteins turning into glucose but that could just be an extension of stage 2. One thing about T2D is that it seems it is stage 1 that goes AWOL first, and we become prone to sugar spikes. Stage 2 can also go wrong since this is the one that ought to keep on going until all is safely gathered in, but things happen to confuse it so that it may not turn off when it should, or turns off too early, It is this enzyme controlled process that is susceptible to metabolic syndrome, and which modern eating habits and gut flora affect greatly by interfering with these enzymes.

Grazing or snacking on the fly leads to confusion since it can prolong Stage 2, Artificial sweetners are aslo suspected of triggering false stage 1 responses and all of these combine to promote hypeinsulaemia or continuous insulin demand from the pancreas. This is why intermittent fasting should be considered as treatment, and why snacks must be avoided. Processed foods tend to haveadded sugars or artificial sweetners added and these compound the problem not just by adding sugars but giving false triggers and possibly altering gut flora long term,

 

[Guzzler]

Insulin response has at least 2 different phases. Stage 1 is triggered by amylase enzyme in the mouth reacting to sugar and as it were predigesting it before it hits the stomach after swallowing. This in turn triggers Stage 1 Response which is a fast acting shot of insulin designed to deal with glucose intake. It is short lived compared to stage 2 which deals with the long term bump due to general carb digestion, There may be a stage 3 associated with proteins turning into glucose but that could just be an extension of stage 2. One thing about T2D is that it seems it is stage 1 that goes AWOL first, and we become prone to sugar spikes. Stage 2 can also go wrong since this is the one that ought to keep on going until all is safely gathered in, but things happen to confuse it so that it may not turn off when it should, or turns off too early, It is this enzyme controlled process that is susceptible to metabolic syndrome, and which modern eating habits and gut flora affect greatly by interfering with these enzymes.

Grazing or snacking on the fly leads to confusion since it can prolong Stage 2, Artificial sweetners are aslo suspected of triggering false stage 1 responses and all of these combine to promote hypeinsulaemia or continuous insulin demand from the pancreas. This is why intermittent fasting should be considered as treatment, and why snacks must be avoided. Processed foods tend to haveadded sugars or artificial sweetners added and these compound the problem not just by adding sugars but giving false triggers and possibly altering gut flora long term,

The only thing to add would be the Cephalic Insulin Response, think Pavlov's Dogs type of thing. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Resurgam]

My medication phobia is such that I can peel the batter off a chip shop fish and leave it on the plate - I am going to try to get a Hba1c done in June, see how it is working.
I'm not going to beg though - if they aren't interested, I'll just leave it be.

 

[Oldvatr]

The only thing to add would be the Cephalic Insulin Response, think Pavlov's Dogs type of thing. Fascinating stuff.

Makes me drool just to think of it...... My wife just drools.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Your reply interests me as after 17 years of a low carb/low GI diet with loads of high intensity exercise my numbers are now going up and I reckon I am borderline to going on meds. I don't feel I can do anymore. I keep finding new (to me) natural substances like Amla which when I first start taking improves my Hba1c but over time the effect wears off. I have no symptoms and according to the diabetic nurse I keep up a good lifestyle.

The mention of "Low GI" foods kind of makes alarmbells go off for me. Fast or low doesn't really matter all that much for a T2 or someone prone to become one. You'll have to process them sooner or later. What low GI foods do you eat? Because cutting those may be the way to go.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Why not. Birthday cake in general raises everyones blood glucose due to the underlying ingredients, so why don't we make low gi the norm. The highly refined white flour is ultraprocessed and of course there is the sugar.....what if the flour was low glycaemic and the sugar didn't budge glucose or insulin (allulose is looking promising for those with a sweet tooth). Normal is contextual, with over 50% of UK food being ultra processed, I would say that is abnormal. "We" have tried to force our mini pancreas's to cope with a bus load of glucose over the last 50 - 60 years, whilst also increasing frequency.

Uh... Because low GI doesn't make a difference to a T2. I'll have to process the carbs sooner or later anyway. Whether my pancreas has to do a mad dash for quick sugars, or a lengthy grind (and I do mean possible hours and hours) on Low GI... It's still not going to be very happy with me. My bloodsugars would still be up. (Besides, birthday cake was an example. Might as well have said pizza. I don't actually miss cake.)

 

[Member496333]

Polysaccharides (complex carbs) still get broken down into monosaccharide (glucose) so it’s all the same in the end. Not sure how fibre fits into that though.

 

[Brunneria]

Trouble is the batter is my favourite part! Shame that no-one has invented a low carb batter or that frying the flour would kill the carbs. (Like my little alliteration?)

There are low carb ‘batter’ recipes. Trouble is, you have to make them yourself, and they are never quite the same... better than nothing though.

I believe there is a low carb fish and chip recipe on diet doc.

 

[Flora123]

How long is a piece of string?

It took me a little over two years. By the time I got around to testing my insulin sensitivity, I scored HOMA-IR of 0.3, which some will know indicates extreme insulin sensitivity. However, I’m under no illusions as to what this means. That is my insulin sensitivity based on my current diet. If I started having birthday cake for breakfast every day, I’m very sure it would soon plummet. But, to me, that is irrelevant, since birthday cake is not human food and my body was never designed to consume it.

After my insulin tests I used the HOMAR calculator and it says 0.9 which is insulin sensitive. That should be a good thing.. so why do I only have to have a couple of berries or a square of 90% chocolate, or even a slice of low carb bread, a bit too much protein and my BG goes high. So confused by this homar calculator. Thanks @Jim Lahey

 

[Brunneria]

After my insulin tests I used the HOMAR calculator and it says 0.9 which is insulin sensitive. That should be a good thing.. so why do I only have to have a couple of berries or a square of 90% chocolate, or even a slice of low carb bread, a bit too much protein and my BG goes high. So confused by this homar calculator. Thanks @Jim Lahey

My understanding is that all the HOMA-R calc does is assess insulin sensitivity in that snapshot. It doesn’t give any info about what is happening at other times.

I would suggest you have a google on the way type 2s can lose their first phase insulin release (it is usually one of the first signs of growing glucose dysregulation). I believe that Jenny Ruhl has a section on that in www.bloodsugar101.com

Also, you may find that reading about the ‘last meal effect’ is interesting to you. Basically, if you don’t eat in a way that triggers insulin release then your body stops expecting that you will need it. When you DO drop some carbs down the shute, it can take a while for your body to gear up and generate enough insulin. This is why low carbers are encouraged to eat 150+ g of carbs a day for several days before a glucose tolerance test. Otherwise their bodies can’t handle it because they are still ‘geared down’.

I suspect you would get very different HOMA-R result it you took the first after months of Low Carbing, and the second after ‘Carbing up’ for a glucose tolerance test.

Hope that helps.

 

[Krystyna23040]

My medication phobia is such that I can peel the batter off a chip shop fish and leave it on the plate - I am going to try to get a Hba1c done in June, see how it is working.
I'm not going to beg though - if they aren't interested, I'll just leave it be.

I'm exactly the same. Yesterday husband made minced beef in a Bolognese sauce. as I know the tomatoes give me a huge spike I put my serving in a strainer and thoroughly washed all the sauce away. Then popped it on top of the spiralised courgettes and put loads of parmesan on top. It was OK but not brilliant but much better than spiking my bs and having to go back on insulin.