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Type 2 Reversing type 2

Mbaker said:
In the UK there are 2 official terms "Remission" and "Cured" used within the NHS; there are codes for these every doctors surgery can use and forms part of a medical record. With this in mind reversed is understandable but not official (in the UK at least). I like remission as it effectively means, there is a potential for re-occurrence if a path is not continued.

There is the biggest elephant in the room however, I keep seeing from the likes of Ivor Cummins that only 12% of persons in the States can cope with the metabolic impact of the current food, even if this is 50% out, for me this shines a light on where "we" really are.
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I have never seen anything NHS flagged as "cured", but in my own case my notes are flagged "Diabetes Resolved".

Now, there is usually a minor case of handbags at dawn on debates of Resmission/Resolved/Reversed, and I have no wish whatsoever to go there, but in my case, I feel resolved is a decent descriptor.
 
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DCUKMod said:
I have never seen anything NHS flagged as "cured", but in my own case my notes are flagged "Diabetes Resolved".

Now, there is usually a minor case of handbags at down on debates of Resmission/Resolved/Reversed, and I have no wih whatsoever to go there, but in my case, I feel resolved is a decent descriptor.
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I like resolved. Clean and concise :)
 
One additional factor that I often bang on about but that I feel is pertinent to this discussion - I think that TOFI, of which I am (was?) one, are far more likely to revert to diabetes if they go back to eating abnormal food-like products, since we do not have the adipocyte capacity in which our livers can safely stash away the resulting glucose as subcutaneous fat. Those who are able to become obese, probably stand a far greater chance of remaining diabetes-free for longer given the same level of starting insulin sensitivity.
 
Mr_Pot said:
This is assuming people developed diabetes by eating the wrong things. If you developed Type 2 due to some genetic reason, or if, as I suspect is the case with many people diagnosed late in life, their pancreas is "wearing out", then you are just in the controlled state rather than in remission, like someone with a peanut allergy who avoids peanuts.
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I'm only assuming that because it gives me more hope. But your pancreas must wear out quicker after a life time of insulin resistance. If we imagine there is a quota of carbs that we can eat during our lifetime and those with the most insulin resistance have reached their quotas already, so they (we) just can't eat them anymore. We've already had our share.
 
HSSS said:
Now see I see those things as two of the most measurable symptoms of diabetes, which I think of as the a metabolic inability to process carbs efficiently.

Social conditioning does indeed play a part in how many a person should expect a body to be able to process though. I guess in your case yours processes as many as you want it to. However should we not have a fundamental issue with carbs and they caused no hyperinsulemia or hyperglycaemia or other damage (ie we weren’t diabetic) would we really restrict them as much as we currently do?
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Should there really be so many forms of processed carbs available to us if many people have the tendency to overeat and become addicted to them?
My husband is a bit cynical and believes cigarettes were originally introduced as a form of population control. Well, maybe the food industry is just part of a big money spinner and has no concern for our wellbeing at all and we are told by our governments and conditioned by our cultures to want to eat a certain way when really, it's just plain killing us.
 
You would mention Fish and Chips. That is the one very high carb food that I do miss. However over thast 10 months I have followed a fairly strict low carb diet and I feel better, have lost weight and have stopped taking insulin. My next goal is to stop taking any medication and to get rid of the DPN.
Will I be cured? I would love to say yes but realistically I have to say that I have successfully enabled my body to work effectively and more healthy at a lower level of carb input. I am almost certain that if I stopped using carb control that my condition would go back to where it was a year ago.
I do have a CGM and I do feel that I might try some Fish and (very small portion) Chips just to see the effect immediately and at my quarterly A1c but I will not until I achieve the main goals.
 
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Cocosilk said:
Should there really be so many forms of processed carbs available to us if many people have the tendency to overeat and become addicted to them?
My husband is a bit cynical and believes cigarettes were originally introduced as a form of population control. Well, maybe the food industry is just part of a big money spinner and has no concern for our wellbeing at all and we are told by our governments and conditioned by our cultures to want to eat a certain way when really, it's just plain killing us.
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I believe they should be limited in some way (but then you get into the area of personal freedom). Certainly not without warning of the detrimental effects excessive amounts have.

I was thinking of the likes of traditional Inuit that don’t (didn’t) demand the same carb processing as we Europeans and North American’s. And not stating I’d go back to the more “normal” way of eating by any means if I wasn’t diabetic but maybe not quite as low as I currently need to stay. I think I’d still stay under the 100 a day.
 
The Western way of eating which has caused a diabetes epidemic is a relatively modern phenomenon. If we eat too much sugar then we damage our insulin production system and we may become diabetic. Stop eating sugar and you may be lucky and reduce blood glucose to normal levels, but the damage is still done. You don't recover from diabetes, you just reduce your BG to a safe level. Start eating sugar again and your BG level will rise and you will do further damage to your insulin production system.
Most doctors will tell you that diabetes is a progressive disease. Once your insulin production system is damaged, the damage gets progressively worse until you will need medication and possibly insulin injections. Now that so many people are following HFLC diets, evidence is growing which suggests that you can sometimes stay in remission and never need medication, but it's early days and it remains to be seen if the benefits last in the long term.
Whether or not the benefits are permanent, it is clear that a HFLC diet lowers BG levels. We may not be cured, but at least we are doing something proactive to improve our health.
 
HSSS said:
I believe they should be limited in some way (but then you get into the area of personal freedom). Certainly not without warning of the detrimental effects excessive amounts have.

I was thinking of the likes of traditional Inuit that don’t (didn’t) demand the same carb processing as we Europeans and North American’s. And not stating I’d go back to the more “normal” way of eating by any means if I wasn’t diabetic but maybe not quite as low as I currently need to stay. I think I’d still stay under the 100 a day.
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And the traditional Inuit have a very low incidence of diabetes. (None?)
Of course "bread and circuses" have been the main way for the PTBs to control the 'revolting' peasants at least since Roman times. They gave free bread (those carbs again) and free entrance to the coliseum for the gladiators. Now we have WWF and other fighting contests free on TV and for food....relatively cheap high carb processed foods. Why are non-processed food items relatively expensive? Just look at who demands a low price so who has to make up the margin needed by farmers.
 
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Jim Lahey said:
In my opinion, no. If it’s gone then it’s gone. It cannot be diagnosed. No hyperglycaemia and no hyperinsulinemia equals no diabetes. If it did, then someone who had it, had it from birth. That’s probably a matter of perspective, but I take the position that T2DM isn’t something you “catch” and then have for life. It’s a symptom of excessive insulin circulation, which in itself is a condition accumulated over decades of eating a diet incompatible with the biology you were born with.

Speaking only for myself, I know for a fact that I do not currently have diabetes, but I am aware that I may get it again if I revert to a way of eating that necessitates excessive insulin secretion. But since this is never going to happen, it’s moot. I like to frame it as “life isn’t a carbohydrate eating competition”. It’s a non-essential macronutrient, so whether or not I choose to consume it is irrelevant as it pertains to what might happen if I do.

Others take a different view and that is fine if it works for them.
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Jim I am 100% certain that reading some of your comments and posts had/have a massive effect upon my own turnaround and understanding of how to keep on fighting the good fight. I for one, am so glad to have you in my corner.
 
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Guzzler said:
Totally. The first three months was blummin' hard but it does get easier. Unlearning a lifetime's habits doesn't happen overnight.
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I found it really easy to drop my carbs and stop eating the items on that list of things to avoid.... If you do not know what that list includes, You may like to look it up!
Then look up all the amazing things you CAN saftly eat and enjoy! Then stick to it for better health well being.
You!, yes you perhaps need to know this list inside out.
BTW Guzzler this comment was not aimed at you.... I just can not understand how people do not take a little time to eduacte themselves... It is there life I guess.
 
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Stephen Lewis said:
You would mention Fish and Chips. That is the one very high carb food that I do miss. However over thast 10 months I have floowed a fairly strict low carb diet and I feel better, have lost weight and have stopped taking insulin. My next goal is to stop taking any medication and to get rid of the DPN.
Will I be cured? I would love to say yes but realistically I have to say that I have succesfully enabled my body to work effectively and more healthy at a lower level of carb input. I am almost certain that if I stopped using carb control that my condition would go back to where it was a year ago.
I do have a CGM and I do feel that I might try some Fish and (very small portion) Chips just to see the effect immediately and at my quarterly A1c but I will not until I achieve the main goals.
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I did have a very small portion of scampi and chips this week as an experiment. I will not be doing that again. I say that I am “well controlled “, by the way
 
We stopped by our favourite chippie last week and I managed to maintain my bloodsugar levels at a decent level by "unpacking" the fish from the batter, ordering salad instead of chips, and having 3 or 4 of my partners chips instead. It wasn't quite like the "real" old-style fish and chips I used to enjoy so much, but I was able to be quite restrained, drink a fizzy water instead of the usual coke, and still enjoy myself. Good result - no big fluctuation in BG levels.
 
Cocosilk said:
Should there really be so many forms of processed carbs available to us if many people have the tendency to overeat and become addicted to them?
My husband is a bit cynical and believes cigarettes were originally introduced as a form of population control. Well, maybe the food industry is just part of a big money spinner and has no concern for our wellbeing at all and we are told by our governments and conditioned by our cultures to want to eat a certain way when really, it's just plain killing us.
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Mmmmm great minds think alike ;)
 
Dexterdobe said:
The Western way of eating which has caused a diabetes epidemic is a relatively modern phenomenon. If we eat too much sugar then we damage our insulin production system and we may become diabetic. Stop eating sugar and you may be lucky and reduce blood glucose to normal levels, but the damage is still done. You don't recover from diabetes, you just reduce your BG to a safe level. Start eating sugar again and your BG level will rise and you will do further damage to your insulin production system..
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But it isn't the sugar.
You can get to a Hba1c of 91 on 'healthy' foods, all low fat - such as oats, wholemeal bread, potatoes and other starchy veges, fruit with high sugar and starch content - I was on a cholesterol lowering diet for almost two years before diagnosis - I burnt the diet sheets and my recipe printouts next day in the garden - I used them to light the barbecue.
 
poemagraphic said:
I found it really easy to drop my carbs and stop eating the items on that list of things to avoid.... If you do not know what that list includes LOOK IT UP!
Then look up all the amazing things you CAN saftly eat and enjoy! Then STICK to it for better health well being.
YOU, yes you need to know this list inside out.
BTW Guzzler this comment is NOT aimed at you.... I just can not understand how people do not take a little time to eduacte themselves... It is there life I guess.
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Oooooh. Let's not do shouting @poemagraphic please.
 
JoKalsbeek said:
For me, it just means that while I have good control of my bloodsugars, no medication and no complications, I am still diabetic. That is to say, I remain carb intolerant, and if I go face-first into a cake and suck it down, my bloodsugars will hit the statosphere. Being a-symptomatic because of my diet hasn't magically cured me,......... I could walk under a bus tomorrow, but I feel fairly safe in stating T2 isn't going to kill me any time soon. If I ever end up in a nursing home where I don't have a say in my diet I'll kick the bucket right-quick though. But here's to hoping. So, to me.... It's just being really well-controlled through diet, permanently, and avoiding nastiness that way.)
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Your reply interests me as after 17 years of a low carb/low GI diet with loads of high intensity exercise my numbers are now going up and I reckon I am borderline to going on meds. I don't feel I can do anymore. I keep finding new (to me) natural substances like Amla which when I first start taking improves my Hba1c but over time the effect wears off. I have no symptoms and according to the diabetic nurse I keep up a good lifestyle.
 
Ricky said:
Your reply interests me as after 17 years of a low carb/low GI diet with loads of high intensity exercise my numbers are now going up and I reckon I am borderline to going on meds. I don't feel I can do anymore. I keep finding new (to me) natural substances like Amla which when I first start taking improves my Hba1c but over time the effect wears off. I have no symptoms and according to the diabetic nurse I keep up a good lifestyle.
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I recommend that you stop eating those 'low GI' foods for a while and see what happens - hard core low carb worked for me - my gut is far too efficient and low GI foods are put through the mill and the carbs extracted no problem. They seem to cause a long period of high blood glucose rather than a spike, but I think that is probably worse than a spike.
 
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