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Saving the planet

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Pinkorchid, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    It can help to know what is behind some issues and what power we are up against.
     
  2. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Pink I thought it was a climate kinda story .... it more often than not is these days.
    As for plastic I see it as one of mans greatest inventions and the modern world would be seriously hindered without it.
    What needs to be done is find a way to make it useful again once me and you have finished with it and that way it would have a value as a resource not a difficult waste problem.
    We need to be building pavements bricks blocks planks coatings surfaces etc with recycled plastic and this is starting to happen more.
    Some plastics are already being turned back into oil.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    Hi,

    Interesting response. With a question mark hanging over the long term effectiveness of certain steps proposed regarding "saving the planet" bigger than the possibly of a meteor strike.

    You open up with, "How are we as individuals helping to save the planet."
    Then proceed to ask;

    Not only are the responses questioning the validity of this initiative to change the way we eat researched & dare i say quite compelling reads.
    They appear to be relivant to the topic.

    "How are we as individuals helping to save the planet." Possibly the responses given are actually attempting to save us from ourselves...?


    Thanks for starting this great thread! :)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Co2 is a complex product of the carbon cycle and released extra carbon, re:anthropogenic release of co2, major volcanic eruptions etc, and temperature variation due to the long earth sun cyclical variations affecting the fertility of oceans plus land available for green biomass.

    I am ignoring short term variations, re: medeval warm period and similar length cold periods,
    They will average out.

    We are atm in an interglacial period and the normal co2 is c.280ppm.
    Deep in the ice ages it is 180ppm!

    NB, before man the temperature change normally controlled the co2. But positive feedback also occurred. It did so at the beginning and end of the ice ages.
    Today it is over 400ppm due to human release of co2 since industrial times. This will result, apparently, to an average temperature increase of 1.5 deg C. As of now.
    So the co2 we produce will control the temperature.
    Problematically this causes up to 6 deg increase in the Arctic and will result in a release of carbon from the permafrost.

    I dont go in for conspiracy theories.
    The science of co2 retaining infrared radiant heat at the Earth surface has been known for over a hundred year and is quite simple.

    IMHO Can we do anything about it? Perhaps coronavirus or some other agent will mutate and remove homo sapiens from the planet?
    I can't see Johnson or anybody else getting it sorted. I am glad I will not live to see the next mass extinction, I've seen too many species lost already.
    D.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #104 lindisfel, Feb 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I shall be giving up almonds since their cultivation is harming the planet and killing the bees, I am giving up avacadoes because they demand too much water, and need energy intensive transportation so I can enjoy them all year round on my dining table. I will be reducing my consumption of tomatoes and cucumber out of season for the same reason.

    I have already given up Christmas trinkets, crackers and toys, since these are mass produced in China, and as we are seeng with Covid-19, there is going to be famine of such things this coming Xmas, I do not need any of them.

    I have already given up soy products, since they make me sick. I have seriously reduced my wheat and grain intake because it too makes me sick. I am allergic to monosodium glutamate and other starches which I have had to remove from my diet. Eating chickpeas put me in hospital with a suspected heart attack, so I cannot eat those either.

    So what else am I giving up to save this planet.
    Chestnuts sitting by an open fire.
    Toasted muffins and crumpets on a fork beside an open fire
    toasted marshmallow on a skewer beside an open fire
    An open fire , courtesy of the UK gov banning coal and wood sales in open fires.

    The proposed diet changes we discussed earlier in the thread will mean I give up my oral diabetic meds, but will need to take up injecting insulin via disposable pens which will not save the planet, I am afraid, but may be needed to save me. Not much option in that it seems.

    I have no intention of reducing the amount of CO2 I exhale but that day will come some day. Presumably by then there will be new regulations regarding cremation and disposal of remains, but that won't be my problem any more.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    #105 Oldvatr, Feb 23, 2020 at 10:11 PM
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  6. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I burn coal logs and diesel and it wouldn't surprise me to find my carbon footprint is smaller than you modern city dwellers.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The main driver of climate is this .....

    sunearth.jpg
     
  8. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    We must stop the practice of airfreighting cut blooms from the Netherlands, Ghana, and South America. Also China and Japan. Ship bulbs and seed and potted plants that can live on after the day, but cut blooms wither and die for nothing. This is a nice to have that we could do without pandering to. Encourage local growers and support horticulture anf hydroponics locally, Send the tulips by rail if necessary. Help feed the local bee populations by planting our own flowers instead of importing exotic blooms and ready made bouquets and sprays.

    Plant a buddlia for the butterflies and the bees.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, its the cause of everything after God!:)
     
  10. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    I cant understand JTL whether or not you are reducing the argument to the simplist form or you just have not studied physics?
    D.
     
  11. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    According to climate scientists the picture is correct.
    You can go on all day long about infrared etc and I'll agree with you that our contribution of C02 affects the climate and the otherwise natural process that is climate change but like the vast majority of scientists humble little me agrees that our contribution is negligible and as I've shown with the increased C02 helping to green the planet there may be other benefits too.
     
  12. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As someone who I presume has studied physics can you explain to me why the Grapes were easy .... easy to grow as far north as Lincoln in the medieval warm period when CO2 levels were around 250 ppm and why in the Roman warm period grapes were growing in abundance along Hadrian's wall when the CO2 levels were even less?
    There is no definitive answer on Google.
     
  13. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    When the coal and gas and oil were mostly still in the sky a long time ago it is estimated that CO2 levels were around 2000 ppm and the world was lush and green and teeming with life.
    Where did all that life supporting CO2 come from?
    It was obviously a natural process meaning it could one day revert to that.
    Does physics support the idea that we could somehow stop that happening again should it start reverting and would it be sensible and desirable to do so if we could?
     
    #113 JTL, Feb 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  14. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You couldn't make it up!
    FEBRUARY 24, 2020
    Prince Harry Will Take Flight to Lecture Tourists on Climate Change

    Reckon he's
    studied physics or maybe he's just a royal busy body trying to find a niche for himself?
    He might might know more than little Greta or then again .....
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wor...flight-to-lecture-tourists-on-climate-change/

    I was at a hospital today having taken my grandson for an appointment and stood for a while waiting for him by a plaque .... this unit was opened by the Duke and Duchess of whereverland.
    I looked at it and thought .... why do people need these kinds of people to cut ribbons and open doors and wave at them and allow them a billionaire lifestyle for the privilege?
    Now we have a flying one lecturing us about flying!
    You really couldn't make this stuff up ....
     
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  15. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't get it?
     
  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I suppose it depends on how you view Covid-19. Is it God intervening to save the planet, or is is simply physics in the form of biochemistry sorting out the overpopulation problem for us? Whatever belief system you have, the result is the same.
     
  17. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not as bad a picture as is painted in fact many countries especially western ones are facing the prospect of not having enough people to sustain development1
    .....
    population growth is slowing. For more than three decades now, the average number of babies being born to women in most of the world has been in decline. Globally, women today have half as many babies as their mothers did, mostly out of choice. They are doing it for their own good, the good of their families, and, if it helps the planet too, then so much the better.

    Here are the numbers. Forty years ago, the average woman had between five and six kids. Now she has 2.6. This is getting close to the replacement level which, allowing for girls who don’t make it to adulthood, is around 2.3. As I show in my new book, Peoplequake, half the world already has a fertility rate below the long-term replacement level. That includes all of Europe, much of the Caribbean and the far east from Japan to Vietnam and Thailand, Australia, Canada, Sri Lanka, Turkey, Algeria, Kazakhstan, and Tunisia ....... https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/the-overpopulation-myth

    Even the United Nations agrees population is going to fall pretty flaat pretty soon.
    The report also confirmed that the world’s population is growing older due to increasing life expectancy and falling fertility levels, and that the number of countries experiencing a reduction in population size is growing. The resulting changes in the size, composition and distribution of the world’s population have important consequences for achieving the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), the globally agreed targets for improving economic prosperity and social well-being while protecting the environment.
    United nations .....
    https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/world-population-prospects-2019.html
     
  18. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  19. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This NASA night time sat photograph actually shows most of the earth is not industrialised with cars trucks highways cities power plants and so on.
    Best seen on a pc screen I would imagine .... I'm old fashioned and still use a desktop ... click to enlarge.
    nighttime view of earth.jpg
     
  20. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I thought Satan the devil was the one who poked prodded punished and killed ... war etc etc surely that's the bad guy?
     
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