Show Me The Science!

[bulkbiker]

This great resource for scientific papers on Keto/LCHF has just been highlighted on Twitter.

https://www.lowcarbusa.org/papers/

Looks like a useful database when someone says there's no proof LCHF is effective!

 

[Rachox]

Thank you, for posting, it all looks very interesting, that’s my bedtime reading sorted for a week or so!

 

[bulkbiker]

Thank you, for posting, it all looks very interesting, that’s my bedtime reading sorted for a week or so!

I'm guessing we may need a medical dictionary or two as well...!

 

[Boo1979]

Interesting reports but, from a scientific point of view, almost completely useless due to very small sample sizes- the first page of studies are reports of effects on between 1 and 17 human subjects or rats per report. Important findings for the individual subjects involved and potential implications for designing future scientifically robust studies, but no findings that can be generalised to wider populations or that will ever make it into the mainstream

 

[rab5]

Some of those studies have more than 17 humans

 

[Guzzler]

Saved for future reading/ref. Thank you for posting.

 

[Boo1979]

Some of those studies have more than 17 humans

A few, but none anywhere near the subject numbers needed for studies to be considered scientific - the subject numbers / types in order - up to the point where I gave up checking numbers - were
6 humans
Mice
3 humans
17 humans
27 humans
1 human
1 human
1 human
Rats
10 humans
51 humans
12 humans
151 humans
10 humans

 

[Alexandra100]

Interesting reports but, from a scientific point of view, almost completely useless due to very small sample sizes- the first page of studies are reports of effects on between 1 and 17 human subjects or rats per report. Important findings for the individual subjects involved and potential implications for designing future scientifically robust studies, but no findings that can be generalised to wider populations or that will ever make it into the mainstream

When evaluating research studies, sample size is certainly one factor to check. Another is length of study. A third is size of dose. That 10 people's bg improved at the end of 2 weeks drinking 2 pints of dandelion juice daily is not helpful information. (Except insofar as it tells us that a high dose of dandelion juice is not immediately deadly.) A fourth very common characteristic of research studies is that they tend to follow the recipe: "Take x number of obese / very over-weight people and put them on a diet of Y". Then, when these guinea pigs' bg falls AND they lose weight, no-one actually knows if bg improved due to their weight loss, or if it would have had the same good effect on people who lost no weight / had no weight to lose.

 

[lindisfel]

Thanks Bulkbiker, it's interest stuff, I hope low carb causes my Conn's tumour to regress.
D.

This great resource for scientific papers on Keto/LCHF has just been highlighted on Twitter.

https://www.lowcarbusa.org/papers/

Looks like a useful database when someone says there's no proof LCHF is effective!

 

[Resurgam]

Thanks Bulkbiker, it's interest stuff, I hope low carb causes my Conn's tumour to regress.
D.

I pricked up my ears when during an interview with a researcher he said something along the lines of 'the mutations in the cancer cells allow them to proliferate quickly by giving them the ability to use glucose more efficiently than a normal cell, but at the same time they have lost the ability to use fat as an energy source,' - but it didn't seem to provoke any interest - but if people think that eating fat is going to kill them faster than cancer would, the significance would be lost.
It might not promote regression by itself, but without glucose as an energy source cells which can't work in ketosis can't multiply or grow rapidly.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

Dr Longo and others have been using fasting to starve cancer and protect non-cancerous cells prior to chemotherapy to great success.

Definitely, starving cancer of their only fuel source and using ketones for the rest of your body seems absolutely rational, don't pour fuel on the fire. There's only one type of non-cancer cell in the body that requires glucose as a fuel source (and thus some insulin), but it should be sufficient to get by on the minimum of glucose.

Low carb and low calorie diets also shows drastically reduced cancer incident and reduction in all-cause mortality from aging generally. Fascinating stuff! Metformin is supposedly also a wonder drug for reducing risk of certain types of cancer too.

 

[Oldvatr]

When evaluating research studies, sample size is certainly one factor to check. Another is length of study. A third is size of dose. That 10 people's bg improved at the end of 2 weeks drinking 2 pints of dandelion juice daily is not helpful information. (Except insofar as it tells us that a high dose of dandelion juice is not immediately deadly.) A fourth very common characteristic of research studies is that they tend to follow the recipe: "Take x number of obese / very over-weight people and put them on a diet of Y". Then, when these guinea pigs' bg falls AND they lose weight, no-one actually knows if bg improved due to their weight loss, or if it would have had the same good effect on people who lost no weight / had no weight to lose.

Dandelion used to have the nickname ****-a-bed or ****-a-Mire in the Middle ages due to it being a diuretic, so be prepared.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Ozi the neolithic iceman's it turns out last meal consisted of 50% fat with a few carbs mainly goats meat fat. And the meat Venison

But he was showing signs of clogging Arteries they cirmise he was using fat as an energy source in order to cope with his environment.

Just goes to show you done it.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Ozi the neolithic iceman's it turns out last meal consisted of 50% fat with a few carbs mainly goats meat fat. And the meat Venison

But he was showing signs of clogging Arteries they cirmise he was using fat as an energy source in order to cope with his environment.

Just goes to show you done it.

They also surmised that his diet and lifestyle had nothing to do with his atherosclerosis. It was due to genes.

 

[zand]

They also surmised that his diet and lifestyle had nothing to do with his atherosclerosis. It was due to genes.

Wow! You mean they had genes way back then too? No hope for us then is there? I still reckon it was the toxic fern though....

 

[JohnEGreen]

They also surmised that his diet and lifestyle had nothing to do with his atherosclerosis. It was due to genes.

Must of missed that all I read was "

Although the Iceman did not have to contend with processed food, there was a negative side to his diet.

He already had signs of blocked arteries at the time of his death."

An surmising ain't proving it's guessing

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Must of missed that all I read was "

Although the Iceman did not have to contend with processed food, there was a negative side to his diet.

He already had signs of blocked arteries at the time of his death."

An surmising ain't proving it's guessing

My mistake - they did more than surmise:

Given that Ötzi wasn't overweight, didn't smoke tobacco, regularly exercised and likely didn't have a high-fat diet (at least by today's standards), it appears that his genes — and not his daily routine — explained his health condition.

"I suspect that lifestyle didn't play a major role in his development of plaque," Dr. Philip Green, an interventional cardiologist at New York-Presbyterian who wasn't involved with the study, told Live Science. Despite the suggestion that Ötzi go vegetarian, Zink sees it another way. "Compared to modern standards, he would not be considered as a risk patient," Zink told Live Science. "So, I think a different diet, such as vegetarian or vegan, wouldn’t have helped Ötzi."

There is no doubt Ötzi is one of the oldest cases of vascular calcification, and "a medical example showing that a genetic predisposition is probably the most important trigger factor for arteriosclerosis and coronary heart disease," study co-researcher Patrizia Pernter, a radiologist at Bozen-Bolzano, said in a statement. (From: https://www.livescience.com/62689-otzi-iceman-mummy-heart-disease.html )


Ötzi the Iceman hardly seems the type to have been prone to heart disease. He died violently around 3300 B.C., aged approximately 40 or 50, and his mummified body was found high in the Italian Alps in 1991. He led a vigorous life, ate a balanced diet, and had no access to tobacco. But when researchers put his remains in a CT scanner, they found calcium deposits in a number of his arteries, indicating the beginnings of atherosclerosis, which commonly leads to heart disease. “By the time Ötzi was 80, he would have had a very good chance of having a heart attack or a stroke,” says Gregory Thomas, a cardiologist at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center in California. (From https://www.archaeology.org/issues/153-1411/trenches/2608-trenches-mummies-heart-disease )


In the new study, Zink and his colleagues found that Ötzi had several gene variants associated with cardiovascular disease, including one on the ninth chromosome that is strongly tied to heart troubles, the researchers reported today (July 30) in the journal Global Heart.

Despite spending years hiking in hilly terrain, it seems Ötzi couldn't walk off his genetic predisposition to heart disease.

"He didn't smoke; he was very active; he walked a lot; he was not obese," Zink said. "But nevertheless, he already developed some atherosclerosis." (From: https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-genes.html )


In particular, the genetic sequencing data demonstrates that the Iceman had a very specific genetic mutation, namely that he was homozygous for the minor allele (GG) of rs10757274, located in chromosomal region 9p21. This SNP is currently regarded as being among the strongest genetic predictors of heart attacks and has been confirmed in several studies as a major risk locus for CHD. (From https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140730203707.htm )

 

[JohnEGreen]

" Both his high-fat diet and his genetic predisposition for cardiovascular disease [34] could have significantly contributed to the development of the arterial calcifications"

Could would might maybe what ever the cause he had clogged Arteries

And this was his diet

" the Iceman’s last meal was a well-balanced mix of carbohydrates, proteins, and lipids, perfectly adjusted to the energetic requirements of his high-altitude trekking."

This is what I was going by . https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30703-6

And had not read your links previously.

Many people have genetic predispositions to conditions, can diet ameliorate this or will it exacerbate it ?

 

[Freema]

My mistake - they did more than surmise:

Given that Ötzi wasn't overweight, didn't smoke tobacco, regularly exercised and likely didn't have a high-fat diet (at least by today's standards), it appears that his genes — and not his daily routine — explained his health condition.

"I suspect that lifestyle didn't play a major role in his development of plaque," Dr. Philip Green, an interventional cardiologist at New York-Presbyterian who wasn't involved with the study, told Live Science. Despite the suggestion that Ötzi go vegetarian, Zink sees it another way. "Compared to modern standards, he would not be considered as a risk patient," Zink told Live Science. "So, I think a different diet, such as vegetarian or vegan, wouldn’t have helped Ötzi."

There is no doubt Ötzi is one of the oldest cases of vascular calcification, and "a medical example showing that a genetic predisposition is probably the most important trigger factor for arteriosclerosis and coronary heart disease," study co-researcher Patrizia Pernter, a radiologist at Bozen-Bolzano, said in a statement. (From: https://www.livescience.com/62689-otzi-iceman-mummy-heart-disease.html )


Ötzi the Iceman hardly seems the type to have been prone to heart disease. He died violently around 3300 B.C., aged approximately 40 or 50, and his mummified body was found high in the Italian Alps in 1991. He led a vigorous life, ate a balanced diet, and had no access to tobacco. But when researchers put his remains in a CT scanner, they found calcium deposits in a number of his arteries, indicating the beginnings of atherosclerosis, which commonly leads to heart disease. “By the time Ötzi was 80, he would have had a very good chance of having a heart attack or a stroke,” says Gregory Thomas, a cardiologist at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center in California. (From https://www.archaeology.org/issues/153-1411/trenches/2608-trenches-mummies-heart-disease )


In the new study, Zink and his colleagues found that Ötzi had several gene variants associated with cardiovascular disease, including one on the ninth chromosome that is strongly tied to heart troubles, the researchers reported today (July 30) in the journal Global Heart.

Despite spending years hiking in hilly terrain, it seems Ötzi couldn't walk off his genetic predisposition to heart disease.

"He didn't smoke; he was very active; he walked a lot; he was not obese," Zink said. "But nevertheless, he already developed some atherosclerosis." (From: https://www.livescience.com/47114-otzi-had-heart-disease-genes.html )


In particular, the genetic sequencing data demonstrates that the Iceman had a very specific genetic mutation, namely that he was homozygous for the minor allele (GG) of rs10757274, located in chromosomal region 9p21. This SNP is currently regarded as being among the strongest genetic predictors of heart attacks and has been confirmed in several studies as a major risk locus for CHD. (From https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140730203707.htm )

well didn´t everybody kind of get smoked back then, I guess they must have spent quite a couple of hours around the fire those days inhaling a lot of smoke maybe almost daily

 

[Brunneria]

No way can anyone assume that the contents of his stomach is his ‘normal diet’.
So to suggest/claim/imply that a meal while mountaineering means that he ate like that all the time is unfounded.