Spreading The Lchf Word Together, Maybe The Way Forward?

[HSSS]

I’m very interested to join in even though I’m not yet in remission only having been diagnosed during diabetes week this year. I got a phone call telling me of the diagnosis and watched fast fix on tv that night! That said I’m losing weight and getting better readings on my self funded meter anticipating (hoping) either remission or prediabetes at next HbA1c. Based on south coast

 

[bigsi1984]

I’m still game, just let me know.

 

[Debandez]

@rainbow79 have a read and see what you think.

Just to add an update whilst I'm here. I'm starting to work on this full on this week after life got in the way a little. Busy period.

The good news is we have our press office on board helping us pave a way. This is a massive plus. They said it's a very good angle to come in from. They have all the newspaper and magazine contact details. I think we should go for the BBC and ITV too. You don't ask you don't get my dear old mum used to say.

If anyone can tag in people they might think would be interested please do so (who knows we may even get the professionals involved!). We can all do our bit to get it off the ground. Team work which is exactly what this forum is about. Helping each other. The more on board the merrier in my opinion. @Rachox and @shelley262 thank you for all your help so far.

PS maybe we could all dig out our old clothes that don't fit! That's what the local paper wanted to photograph me in but unfortunately I had donated everything to charity!!! I will however invest in a new pair of trousers in my old size for the cause!

If anything we are going to have a big meeting face to face somewhere in the UK! Which in itself will be amazing. Thanks @shelley262 for your suggestions to date. Will be looking into these and any other suggestions that come along. Birmingham seems a good central location though. Probably not too soon so we have time to plan etc. Not sure what interest we will get but I do know it feels like the right thing to do. We need change. And we need it soon. Please feel free to throw ideas in the pot.

 

[Goonergal]

Hi @Debandez and thanks so much for taking this on.

I’m happy to help you out - let me know if you need anything doing. I have kept 1 pair of jeans and 1 t-shirt from my larger days, so will be able to join in that aspect!

Wondering whether it would be worth putting a link to this thread on the before and after photos thread? In fact, I’ve just done it!

To complete the cross reference, that one is here:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/sharing-inspirational-photos-after-lchf-anyone.145539/

 

[xfieldok]

I never thought to keep any of my old stuff. It went in the bin or charity shop as appropriate.

 

[Debandez]

Hi @Debandez and thanks so much for taking this on.

I’m happy to help you out - let me know if you need anything doing. I have kept 1 pair of jeans and 1 t-shirt from my larger days, so will be able to join in that aspect!

Wondering whether it would be worth putting a link to this thread on the before and after photos thread? In fact, I’ve just done it!

To complete the cross reference, that one is here:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/sharing-inspirational-photos-after-lchf-anyone.145539/

Great idea @Goonergal. I'm going to make it my business to check out status' for 'in remission' or 'reversed ' and ask if they would like to join. I know there are many who have done tbis but their status don't reflect it but i won't have time to ask everyone directly. Thanks again.

 

[Goonergal]

Great idea @Goonergal. I'm going to make it my business to check out status' for 'in remission' or 'reversed ' and ask if they would like to join. I know there are many who have done tbis but their status don't reflect it but i won't have time to ask everyone directly. Thanks again.

Good idea! Although I have to say that I choose not to use either term as I’m firmly in the diabetes is forever camp. Hope that doesn’t disqualify me!

 

[DCUKMod]

Great idea @Goonergal. I'm going to make it my business to check out status' for 'in remission' or 'reversed ' and ask if they would like to join. I know there are many who have done tbis but their status don't reflect it but i won't have time to ask everyone directly. Thanks again.

Like @Goonergal , some people won't subscribe to the teminology, but you could take Professor Taylor's definition (I posted it on a thread somewhere, but can't recall where), and ask folks who match the criteria to identify themselves, whethere or not they agree with the terms.

That could be an interesting thread in itself, methinks.

 

[Debandez]

Good idea! Although I have to say that I choose not to use either term as I’m firmly in the diabetes is forever camp. Hope that doesn’t disqualify me!

Not at all. I think most of us are just well controlled. If we went back to the old way of eating there would be trouble ahead! You're in!!!

 

[shelley262]

I never thought to keep any of my old stuff. It went in the bin or charity shop as appropriate.

Hi @xfieldok i did the same - as before when I used to yo yo with strict low carb diets I would loose and then regain plus a bit extra! So idea was that I’d get rid of big clothes to charity to stop me going backwards.
However charity clothes are generally not too pricey and knew what size I was wearing on diagnosis so bought my size in trousers from local charity shop in a similar style to what I used to wear and used them to demonstrate how much I’d gone down. Charity at least has earnt a lot out of my recent downsizing it’s only now that I’m stable that I’m buying new clothes as an investment. Will keep the big trousers though as a reminder!

 

[Debandez]

Like @Goonergal , some people won't subscribe to the teminology, but you could take Professor Taylor's definition (I posted it on a thread somewhere, but can't recall where), and ask folks who match the criteria to identify themselves, whethere or not they agree with the terms.

That could be an interesting thread in itself, methinks.

Good idea. Something like this? ' do you classify yourself as in remission, reversed or well controlled and why?'

 

[DCUKMod]

Good idea. Something like this? ' do you classify yourself as in remission, reversed or well controlled and why?'

It's not my place to tell you how to structure your thread, but I might be inclined to just ask people if the tick the boxes for Professor Taylor's suggested terms of reference for remission/reversal. People will then undoubtedly comment, adding their own view on whether those terms constitute reversal/remission/control/nothing.

It depends if you are trying to assess how many people have reached that criteria, then you have identified those who may be motivated to join in your "movement" (only word I can think of at the moment). As I understand it, folks have been struggling a bit to remember who has done well.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm personally not wedded to Professor taylor's proposed definition as being correct or that that is the only measure of success, I'm just suggesting it as an easy to understand definition, put out there from someone who has done respected research.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's not my place to tell you how to structure your thread, but I might be inclined to just ask people if the tick the boxes for Professor Taylor's suggested terms of reference for remission/reversal. People will then undoubtedly comment, adding their own view on whether those terms constitute reversal/remission/control/nothing.

It depends if you are trying to assess how many people have reached that criteria, then you have identified those who may be motivated to join in your "movement" (only word I can think of at the moment). As I understand it, folks have been struggling a bit to remember who has done well.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm personally not wedded to Professor taylor's proposed definition as being correct or that that is the only measure of success, I'm just suggesting it as an easy to understand definition, put out there from someone who has done respected research.

The sub 48 is also what Virta health use to define Reversed/Remission etc as well as Dr David Unwin so it seems to be getting overall acceptance.. even though I consider it a bit silly..

 

[Debandez]

It's not my place to tell you how to structure your thread, but I might be inclined to just ask people if the tick the boxes for Professor Taylor's suggested terms of reference for remission/reversal. People will then undoubtedly comment, adding their own view on whether those terms constitute reversal/remission/control/nothing.

It depends if you are trying to assess how many people have reached that criteria, then you have identified those who may be motivated to join in your "movement" (only word I can think of at the moment). As I understand it, folks have been struggling a bit to remember who has done well.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm personally not wedded to Professor taylor's proposed definition as being correct or that that is the only measure of success, I'm just suggesting it as an easy to understand definition, put out there from someone who has done respected research.

That sounds like a plan. Thanks. Do you have a link to his terms of reference at all. I've had a quick Google but if you have a link that would be easier.

 

[bulkbiker]

"The choice of HbA1c cut-off for the co-primary out- come measure was between 48 mmol/mmol (the diagnos- tic threshold for T2DM) and 42mmo/mmol (diagnostic threshold for IGT/pre-diabetes). There is existing evidence that weight loss of 5-10 kg (mean 4 kg at 4 years) will prevent the development of T2DM for 58 % of patients with IGT/pre-diabetes, and that ~55 % will revert to a completely normal HbA1c of <42 mmol/mmol [34]. The aim of DiRECT being to achieve remission of established T2DM, it was considered most appropriate to adopt the cut-off 48 mmol/mmol for the primary outcome measure, with 42 mmol/mmol as a secondary outcome measure."

This comes from
http://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk/protocol/DiRECTProtocol.pdf

 

[Debandez]

The sub 48 is also what Virta health use to define Reversed/Remission etc as well as Dr David Unwin so it seems to be getting overall acceptance.. even though I consider it a bit silly..

I would have thought 41 but 48 works in my favour on this one!

 

[bulkbiker]

I would have thought 41 but 48 works in my favour on this one!

https://twitter.com/lowcarbGP/status/1012075029352341504
This should be Dr Unwin's tweet where he says he and Prof Taylor had agreed on it too.. apologies if it isn't I'm still getting used to twitter..
https://twitter.com/lowcarbGP/status/1012075029352341504

 

[bulkbiker]

I would have thought 41 but 48 works in my favour on this one!

Completely agree but...

 

[Debandez]

"The choice of HbA1c cut-off for the co-primary out- come measure was between 48 mmol/mmol (the diagnos- tic threshold for T2DM) and 42mmo/mmol (diagnostic threshold for IGT/pre-diabetes). There is existing evidence that weight loss of 5-10 kg (mean 4 kg at 4 years) will prevent the development of T2DM for 58 % of patients with IGT/pre-diabetes, and that ~55 % will revert to a completely normal HbA1c of <42 mmol/mmol [34]. The aim of DiRECT being to achieve remission of established T2DM, it was considered most appropriate to adopt the cut-off 48 mmol/mmol for the primary outcome measure, with 42 mmol/mmol as a secondary outcome measure."

This comes from
http://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk/protocol/DiRECTProtocol.pdf

Brilliant @bulkbiker . I will be printing this off and reading in full. Not easy reading lying in bed on your mobile!!! Appreciate the info. Thanks.

 

[Rachox]

Now I put ‘in remission’ on my profile as it was the closest I could find IMO to well controlled. I still take Metformin but although I’m looking to reduce it soon I won’t stop it all together, I like the other benefits, especially appetite suppression. So I don’t fit Prof Taylor’s criteria, however with HbA1cs consistently in the mid 30s I believe if I did come off it I’d remain well under his 48 threshold.