1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Statins

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Grateful, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,945
    Likes Received:
    30,480
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I understand where you are coming from, but in general, if we have fasted long enough before the test, the trigs are likely to be more stable. I also appreciate not all surgeries include the triglyceride test, but if the total, HDL and LDL have been included, then it is easy to work the trigs out. The trigs are the baddies so it makes sense to include them and take notice of them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Red59

    Red59 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hi Grateful. Your story sounds very similar to mine. I reversed my diabetes in 2017 with the Newcastle and then Keto diet. My cholesterol numbers have been all over the map in the last 2 years. I have researched and have found that the top 2 selling drugs in North America (I am Canadian) are #1 Lantus Insulin and #2 statins so I my statin prescription from my doctor sits unfilled. I have read Dave Feldman's Cholesterol Code and recommend it https://cholesterolcode.com/. Also, I always do the Framingham Risk Score when I get my numbers. I am keeping an eye on it and have found that if I fast longer than 12 hours prior to the test my cholesterol, Total LDL numbers will be higher. There is no doubt for patients who have had a previous cardiac event or family history of cholesterol/cardiac issues that statins work but I don't believe they are effective for everyone. I am not a medical person just trying to figure this all out like everyone else. I wish you all the best Grateful and will follow to see how you are doing.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Not sure about that, since a recent 10yr study showed that those in the higher LDL category lived longer than those in the lower LDL category in a study population of those with a prior Stroke, heart Attack or Heart failure.

    So how are statins helping? Is it that those with the higher LDL were on Statins? So they aren't lowering the LDL but they are reducing deaths?
    Or that higher LDL is protective? - In which case why take a Statin to negate that beneficial effect?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. KennyA

    KennyA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    38
  5. maltham 2

    maltham 2 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    43

    Looks like you are doing OK on HB1AC and weight. No worries there. Christmas was clearly fun :)

    The cholestrol thing is interesting and if not already pointed out you have to consider the NICE guidelines given to medical staff: above a certain level of cholesterol they must recommend the patient in the direction of statins. Ratio not considered.

    If they do not do that and there is a problem later they can be open to legal action. So the normal path is to recommend statins.

    I leave it up to you and readers to make your own judgement on the efficacy of statins but it's worth noting that even the NHS thinks that they will benefit just 1% of the overall prescribed population based on a generic cross sample. If you are not overweight, eat well, don't smoke, exercise a bit and live life in moderation, without local pollution then the average benefit is even less significant.

    Do the investigation to inform.
     
  6. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    7,827
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Evidence?
     
  7. maltham 2

    maltham 2 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    43
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    143
    But if you really like statins, then you need to take either Simvastatin or Atorvastatin, since they pass through the blood/brain barrier and so can do their good work in allegedly depriving your brain cells of nutrients - LOL !
     
  9. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    940
    Trophy Points:
    153
  10. MollieB

    MollieB · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I live in the US and find this discussion somewhat fascinating. When you say your cholesterol do you mean LDL or total? That is pretty high for a total but, if that is your LDL (and if I converted it correctly), that is REALLY high. The general recommendations for diabetics in the US is LDL cholesterol below 80 (or 2.1 if the converter is correct) for the general diabetic population and below 70 (or 1.8) if they have a history of cardiovascular disease. Diabetic patients are associated with an 18% greater risk of cardiovascular mortality (death) than the general population.

    You sound like you could be someone who has familial hypercholesterolemia. (Genetic high cholesterol). It is a possibility to explore.
     
  11. millenium

    millenium Carer · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    103
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,387
    Likes Received:
    11,311
    Trophy Points:
    298
    It will be total... full lipid panels are not always the norm here in the UK and fasting advice is rarely given so results can be skewed anyway.
     
  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,943
    Likes Received:
    34,584
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Could you please supply some links and references for these statements.
    Thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,387
    Likes Received:
    11,311
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,943
    Likes Received:
    34,584
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,945
    Likes Received:
    30,480
    Trophy Points:
    298
    In the UK the general recommendations are LDL ( serum lipids) up to 3mmol/l . I think it maybe a little lower for those with diabetes. The more recent NHS recommendations are to pay less attention to the LDL and to look at the Total cholesterol/HDL ratio, which should be under 5 and the non-HDL cholesterol level, which should be under 4 (3.4 for diabetics).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,387
    Likes Received:
    11,311
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Just had my GP "chat" ...."your cholesterol is over 5, your QRisk score is 19"...
    Asked her remove the T2 diabetes.. oh yes your QRisk is 10.6..
    Then "no I wasn't going to recommend a statin" she said... hmmm maybe I should have let her dig the hole first before jumping in...
    A missed opportunity although she did admit I was "quite well informed" .. might have got back onto 6 monthly HbA1c and full lipid panel though.. no CAC scan worse luck..
     
  18. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,945
    Likes Received:
    30,480
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Yes, mine drops substantially if I remove diabetes, by almost a half. However, my nurse won't remove it on the one she does that goes on my medical records, although she understands my arguments. It may be surgery protocol not to do it, I don't know. I don't care. I still have 6 monthly blood tests for the lot.
     
  19. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Perhaps I have a tendency to assume that other active members have seen the same information that I have, since although I spend several hours per day on studying Diabetes and CHD (and Colon Cancer) related subjects, for the most part I only see things that are widely linked or Tweeted.

    Dose it make my statements less valid if I don't see a request for references before another member supplies it ?

    Edited to add link to Statins crossing blood/brain barrier, evidence of cognitive impairment etc.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5830056/

    For anecdontal evidence just ask @Resurgam
     
    #59 ianf0ster, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:15 PM
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  20. Santa_Fe

    Santa_Fe Type 2 · Newbie

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    23
    I was once on statins and my cholestrol levels didn't change, up or down, so I came off them. My reading was only 4.2 but the attitude was "well you're diabetic so you must take statins".

    According to the physiologists while there are good control methods within the human body for thirst, respiration rate, blood pressure and all sorts of other things there is no control loop for cholesterol levels. This begs the question of does the level matter? Some people say probably not. Cholesterol is seen as a problem because it deposits as plaque on the inside of blood vessels and eventually will block them, the question that is rarely if ever asked is, why does it do that? The medical profession appear unable to answer that question and big pharma won't ask it because they make too much money selling statins. One final word, I have seen reports that statins can have some serious side effects so if you can avoid them, I would.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook