lindisfel
Expert
Reminds me of the joke about the cannibal and the missionary minister.
First cannibal to second cannibal, "We are having the minister for lunch!"
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The one show discussion
- Thread starter jayney27
- Start Date
First cannibal to second cannibal, "We are having the minister for lunch!"
first14808
Well-Known Member
Indeed. It's also sad that if you've got the money, you can get a personal trainer & nutritionist. If you don't, you'll get an Eatwell guide and wonder why it's not working.. Which is a national tragedy given the huge social and psychological costs of people struggling with their weight. Or other people's perceptions of their weight.
I think it's a positive sign that LCHF or just low-carb diets are getting more media attention, and especially if it's positive. Not long ago the BBC referred to LCHF and keto as 'fad' diets. If they're coming around to the idea that there can be significant health benefits, it's a good thing.
I was a bit fearful of keto originally, as a lot of doctors regard it as a very technical diet which is best used in emergencies or for treating epilepsy and under medical supervision. Also my fist foray into severely reducing carbs had nothing to do with keto, I was just eating to my meter and ended up on less than 20g carbs a day and in hospital. Not sure why - I think I'd been having far too much salt, plus wasn't aware of the idea of keto and deliberately eating more fat.
I've been back down to 20g carbs on many days since that and the vast majority of days am under 50g and no more problems thankfully.
I do wonder just how "technical" and "unusual" keto diets are, worldwide. There must be many people who are thriving on keto diets who don't even know what the word means, it's just their natural diet. Having potatoes and bread with a meal may seem normal in my society, but plenty of people will have a staple diet of things like fish and berries, and don't feel the need to supplement with magnesium and potassium and deliberately consume extra salt.
Anyway what I really found encouraging about the VLCK diet study was that they seemed to think up to 50g of carbs a day was acceptable to get the benefits. This ties in very well with the other study that showed if you ate less than 50g of carbs a day then suddenly your blood started to look much more healthy in terms of lipids and there was reason to believe risks for things like heart problems were significantly reduced.
A simple difference between a cut-off of 20g and 50g could make all the difference in persuading health authorities that this dietary approach, whether you label it keto or not, is not so radical and scary.
first14808
Well-Known Member
Most famous (or infamous) example is probably the Inuit diet. Studies have found that to be higher in carbs than first assumed, and not always ketogenic. Plus the people may be adapted to that diet, ie larger than normal livers. So it doesn't necessarily follow that I can embark on an Inuit diet without complications. Or supplements. And I like seals.. they're salty sea dogs!
But that's an issue with 'paleo' diets, namely it's cheating to pick & choose foods that typically wouldn't be found in your region. Or that modern versions of ancient foods have been cross-bred and genetically modified to improve yields, or longevity, but not necessarily nutrion. But popularity has generated more interest in other old foods, eg:-
https://nwedible.com/andean-root-vegetables/
Which could offer an alternative to sweet potato or the plain'ol spud. I'm also curious about ulloco. That would make a colorful addition to a potato salad, and may be possible to grow here. Or there are other native European tubers and root vegs that were largely displaced by the potato.
I think it's more a case of being able to measure ketones via urine sticks or blood meters. That's the surest way to tell if you're in ketosis, and then it's looking at any potential negative effects of being in ketosis long-term. Medically, it's a riskier proposition than simply reducing carb intake or improving carb quality. And again I think it's important for people to get good diet advice tailored to their needs, and not rush into it. Gradually reducing carbs is easier on the body, and finding a point where you're getting the best benefits.
bulkbiker
BANNED
Riskier.. or just unquantified at the moment?
Also I think that gradually reducing the carbs is a less optimal way of doing it. you get less immediate benefits and stay carb addicted for longer.. Also if you are an all or nothing personality it just draws out the pain. I'm not sure that a blanket statement here is helpful but I found the opposite to you worked better for me.
Which was the reason, with the knowledge I had at the time, I opted to do the meal replacement VLCD, but without the surgery.
first14808
Well-Known Member
A bit of both I think.
I'm thinking more from an NHS perspective. So telling a patient to cut from 150g+ per meal down to <20g per day is a pretty drastic change, and a doc would want to be pretty certain it wouldn't harm the patient. Or in the US, result in a huge malpractice liability.
Outside of medical/clinical settings, we're bombarded with 8-10 week 'miracle' diets that promise dramatic results. Watch the pounds vanish! Or dollars, euros etc.. But official advice is hamstrung and tied to the WHO/EU/UK Eatwell doctrine. That needs to change to allow more flexibility. Heath-Carter created a way to classify body types, medical professionals need a way to tailor diets to our metabolic types. They can probably be categorised far better than the WHO's 'One World' diet.
Guzzler
Master
May I ask if you ever got keto flu?
bulkbiker
BANNED
To be honest I can't really remember (it was a long time ago). I don't recall ever feeling it but I was so metabolically ill at the time I doubt if I would have noticed.
Np, but as may BG was over 20, I may not have noticed if I did! And I have always had a lot of salt on my food.
lindisfel
Expert
Hi,
I looked up an article debunking the Inuit diet claim. They did eat carbs it claimed.
It lacked references and was written by a vegan!
They did collect and freeze Arctic berries, as we know, but I doubt they grew potatoes in the permafrost.
This article tried a two pronged attack claiming they did have heart disease and also they ate carbs!
Make of that what you like!
Derek
I looked up an article debunking the Inuit diet claim. They did eat carbs it claimed.
It lacked references and was written by a vegan!
They did collect and freeze Arctic berries, as we know, but I doubt they grew potatoes in the permafrost.
This article tried a two pronged attack claiming they did have heart disease and also they ate carbs!
Make of that what you like!
Derek
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I thought reheating rice was unhealthy? I am sure I learned this from a BBC programme or maybe my T2 brain is addled again.
Bluetit1802
Legend
There were warnings a while ago about re-heating rice, and being careful when rice is served in restaurants as they tend to cook it then re-heat as required. I didn't take much notice because I don't like savoury rice. (Only pudding rice - which I now can't have.
)
Guzzler
Master
I've been cooking and reheating rice for over 30 years, it is the only real way to prepare fried rice. Warnings were given about this on the discovery of a particular bacteria that can proliferate on rice but pertained (mostly) to boiled rice that has not cooled sufficiently then reheated inadequately.
I miss fried rice. Sigh.....
I miss fried rice. Sigh.....
There were warnings a while ago about re-heating rice, and being careful when rice is served in restaurants as they tend to cook it then re-heat as required. I didn't take much notice because I don't like savoury rice. (Only pudding rice - which I now can't have.
Cooked rice should be cooled rapidly, prior to rerfrigeration or freezing, then when reheating, it must be reheated to piping hot. This can onlysafely be done once, so no leftovere leftovers.
CherryAA
Well-Known Member
As far as I know ketosis is simply a state whereby your body is not getting enough food to operate without fat burning and thus ALL successful weight loss diets will result in your body being in ketosis for at least some of the time including a shake diet.
I was in higher nutritional ketosis on the day of diagnosis following my very low calorie very low fat traditional diet than I have ever been since. It didn't stop me also having terrible blood sugar responses to the amount of carboydrates I was eating.
Braiatric surgery - Gerdosi on the facebook "lowering insulin" group is pretty convinced that there IS an additional benefit from bariatric surgery. He believes that benefit is that it actually removes the part of your upper intestine that has been damaged by too much carb ingestion leading to a kind of "leaky gut" and that this effect is additional to that of the fasting/ lower calorie consumption.
I still think it should be a last resort only when a ketogenic diet has failed rather than a first option
I was in higher nutritional ketosis on the day of diagnosis following my very low calorie very low fat traditional diet than I have ever been since. It didn't stop me also having terrible blood sugar responses to the amount of carboydrates I was eating.
Braiatric surgery - Gerdosi on the facebook "lowering insulin" group is pretty convinced that there IS an additional benefit from bariatric surgery. He believes that benefit is that it actually removes the part of your upper intestine that has been damaged by too much carb ingestion leading to a kind of "leaky gut" and that this effect is additional to that of the fasting/ lower calorie consumption.
I still think it should be a last resort only when a ketogenic diet has failed rather than a first option
