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Veggie Burger that bleeds?

Discussion in 'Vegetarian Diet Forum' started by Oldvatr, Jan 14, 2019.

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  1. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    First step being that a meat tax has been mooted here in the UK.
     
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  2. WuTwo

    WuTwo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Well - start your protest movement now! Protesting something you object to doesn't have to be parades in the streets - start writing letters!
     
  3. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    EAT Lancet was invited to give a presentation to the UN in Jan and it was apparently well received. The UN FAO gave similar presentation to the EU symposium on climate change and also to Davros. It has been presented to the Commons Comittee on environmental matters, and debated in the House of Lords. Mexico is looking at restrictions on livestock farming, as is Indonesia and China. This unfortunately has nothing to do with people, it is due to big money and the millionaires club. It is the global warming bandwagon being hijacked by big business. The reason why people will not rise up is simply that the media is being controlled and manipulated. Most of the world is in total ignorance of what is going on.

    If you read the Eat Lancet report, then on page 2 they list over 40 organisation that sponsor them, They are proud to admit corporate sponsorship and are open about their anti livestock stance. The same sponsors are funding the science that they use to justify their science, and this is often very suspect.

    New York City has passed statute that mandates that all schools, colleges, and public buildings have a Go Meat Free Monday every week and are about to add Go Vegan Wednesdays too. Thus people are being forced to cut out meat on 2 days a week, and dairy on one day a week with no exceptions. It is not going to stop there. This interference is real.

    Edit to add:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    #103 Oldvatr, Mar 27, 2019 at 1:39 PM
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I may do that but in the meantime I'm just happy to debunk the junk science.
     
  5. WuTwo

    WuTwo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That's totally cool too :)
     
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    All untrue for me, impossible to persuade me that making mine or others insulin and blood sugar higher, replacing animal fat with either sugar or vegetable seed oils leads to better health. If we pick any time pre-1975' ish and look at the disease / condition states (i'm talking diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, other autoimmune and the like) and compare to now when 70% of the diet is already plant based (Ted Naimen), it is clear where the problem is - low fat / high carbohydrate modern diet. The above is used as scare tactics due to the success of LCHF / Keto. I have searched for deaths on LCHF / Keto hard to find, yet Atkins has been around for ages - by now there should have been tens of thousands directly correlated. Studies like to use words like "could" - can we do "does", "did", this would be creditable, this can't be done because it is not fact. How many book authors or in the litigation based USA persons have been sued for the LCHF / Keto protocol.

    The last 50 years if looked at by aliens would be deemed as an extinction level event. A plant based diet cleans up the worst diet ever, so of course gets some results......but how does it stack up against a LCHF / Keto. The success stories on Facebook, Instagram, here and diet Doctor are dominated by a particular methodology (not to say others don't work in the short term), these persons don't just report diabetes management / remission.

    If you read some of last weeks posts on this site, there were at least 2 persons having to move from certain protocols as blood glucose goes too high, the lowest HbA1c's, fasting insulin for Type 2's I have seen on this site are for LCHF / Keto. This is the result for weight loss when for once what is recognisable as a Keto diet is put up against other methods https://www.itv.com/feelgood/save-money-feelgood/save-money-lose-weight. For those without the time Keto was almost 3 times more effective. Whilst this is not scientific, it is no coincidence that low carb tends to do better when the test is fair (e.g. not high carb still or tainted with vegetable oils and similar).

    When tests such as saturated fat are completed, this should not include "fake" fat, why not for example test using say sirloin / ribeye steak the saturated linoleic acid fat in this is protective, not just proven in tests but throughout human existence - we keep forgetting about history. If we compare say a "heart healthy" breakfast of brown toast (maybe jam / marmalade) with margarine and a banana and a glass of skimmed milk, how does this stack up against bacon and eggs, raspberries and nuts.
     
  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    As a T2D I can personally vouch for a vegan diet being harmful to me. I have tried several Greger diet meals, and also eat out vegan meals, and they have given me hideously high sugar levels that last overnight. Actually twice as high as I was getting on a sweet n sour takeaway from the chipshop.

    I have recently been in hospital following a heart attack, and out of interest I chose a vegan stew dish from the hospital menu. That night I had terrible heartburn, so I asked a nurse for an antacid. What followed was out of keystone cops. ECG, Bloods, crash trolley, crash team. oxygen mask. The works. Turns out it really was indigestion and I burped it away. But it could have been an MI.

    Again I never learn so I had a vegan curry the next week. Same after effect, with blood sugars over 30 mmol/l that lasted overnight. morning fbgl was 16 instead of the normal 5 or 6, and even my evening readings were high. Now I eat the omnivore choice even though it is not very interesting (plain omlette)

    I agree with @lucylocket61 that the advice for T2D is irresponsible unless the person is on MDI or similar and able to bolus. My wife has also been told that vegan will cure her Parkinsons, and my son was advised to go vegan after his cancer treatment (not by a health worker). The science (ADVENT 2) that backs these claims has been shown to be totally biassed and wrong.
     
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  8. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    why do you assume people havent been writing letters, protesting, signing petitions? Standing up and getting involved is real in this country.

    And coming on here, as I and others have done, to refute, debunk and unwrap these false and misleading studies is also a form of protest and action.
     
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  9. WuTwo

    WuTwo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't know your protest activites, and I don't really want to, but if you are protesting then that's great. Get in there! And yes, posting is also a form of protest I agree.
     
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  10. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Asda's
     
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  11. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I would love to be able to eat Birds Eye vegetable burgers, and I love the vegetable fingers, also cheese and broccoli ones, but they all contain potatoes. I get so annoyed as I wish they would leave out the heavy carbs in them and would spike my BGS's. So I just make my own. It would be nice to have a go to though
     
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  12. Linda Kaufman

    Linda Kaufman · Member

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    In fact, it's terrible and I support the protest. I agree with derry60, veggie burgers prepared at home. I'm trying to completely abandon animal products now, but it's very difficult.
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Why? it will likely harm your health to do so..
     
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  14. Marie 2

    Marie 2 LADA · Well-Known Member

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    The mastering diabetes program is for type 2 and type 1 diabetes and it's designed to help stop insulin resistance. It's all vegan.
     
  15. Marie 2

    Marie 2 LADA · Well-Known Member

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    You just want to ignore the fact that livestock takes more water, land than meat production. several studies on that. Which is why so many support controlling the raising of livestock. Everyone out there is not wrong.

    Animal agriculture is responsible for 51% of greenhouse gas emissions We think that vehicles are responsible for a huge amount of emissions, but animal agriculture is responsible for more than all transportation exhaust combined. Dairy and meat production uses more energy, land and water than we realize. It is the #2 leading cause of all greenhouse gas emissions.

    On top of beef generating 20 times more greenhouse gas emissions as beans, beef also takes up 20 times more land than beans, per gram of protein. Animal farming uses 83% of agricultural land but provides just 18% of our calories.

    About 20 vegans can be fed on the amount of land it takes to feed 1 meat eater. On average, about 2 football fields per year can feed 14 people on a plant-based diet vs. only 1 person eating meat and dairy.

    If every American cut out 1 serving of chicken per week, the environmental effects would be equivalent to taking 500,000 cars off of the road. Expanding beyond just chicken, if the world ate 15% less meat it would be like taking 240 million cars off the road each year.
     
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  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Not sure you quite got that right....
    Absolute rubbish.. as has been shown many times..
    Except that grazing land is usually completely unsuitable for growing crops...


    I guess eating an egg causes the same amount of damage as 5 cigarettes too?
    I'm afraid that you have been completely taken in by the propaganda.
     
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  17. WuTwo

    WuTwo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll find most ethical vegans are vegan because we don't want to eat animal produce.

    You could tell me I'd die early and I still wouldn't eat an animal. This isn't just a meaningless statement. I say it as a cancer survivor living with the knowledge that I could recur at any time and who **** near died last time round. I went vegan when I came out of hospital. I realised how precious life is, and cannot think why mine would be more precious than that of any other being.

    Post edited by moderator for language
     
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    #117 WuTwo, Apr 10, 2019 at 11:34 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2019
  18. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Such a pity I can't live on beans. I can, however, live on animal products without the aid of supplements if I so choose. I cannot beleive that the rearing of animals for the plate causes more greenhouse gasses than the use of fossil fuels.
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    That's great and I admire your ethical standpoint.. however many claims that are made for the benefits of POD (plant only diet) are often overblown and sometimes simply incorrect. This unfortunately includes most (if not all) of the environmental claims that are made.
     
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  20. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not wishing to get involved in a debate, but is it not also true that a very prominent study regarding the environmental impact of eating animal products was later debunked by its own authors on account of it completely omitting transport data from plant agriculture, thus rendering the entire study a waste of effort? I may be wrong, it’s not my main area of interest, but I’m sure I read something along those lines. From memory it also assumes that ruminants must be fed on grains.

    Personal choice is of course paramount, but I believe that non-factual ‘evidence’ should always be challenged.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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