Who has had depression due to low carbing?

I have always preferred the term 'controlled carb' i.e. you eat to the level that allows you good BG's... that might be 30, 50, 100, 150, whatever... everyone is different

So there are no takers for the forbidden term causing depression? Most people find the opposite - it is effective and therefore
is more likely to cure depression in those previously suffering from unconrolled diabetes?

I don't believe there is any mystery about it. The diagnosis in itself is enough to cause depression. The treatment or advice given to most T2s at least, will exaerbate this and for some people a drastic change of diet could be very depressing but for more than the obvious reasons.

Sensible advice delivered in a sensitive way at diagnosis could prevent so many problems.

borofergie said:

In the words of Clara Barton (the founder of the American Red Cross):
"I have an almost complete disregard of precedent, and a faith in the possibility of something better. It irritates me to be told how things have always been done. I defy the tyranny of precedent. I go for anything new that might improve the past."

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In the words of the Who (one of the best rock bands of all time) 'Dont Get Fooled Again'
Change it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fall that's all
But the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE

Someone sent me a recent Daily Mail article which is quite relevant to this thread, it is basically a testimony from a woman (non diabetic) who got sucked into the current low carb fever that was become popular recently, she refers to herself now as a recovering carborexic, as I read it she is basically saying that fanatical low carbing can cause depression (carborexia).



Anyway here is the link, make of it what you will.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/art ... rexia.html

Carborexia............. :shock:

Yeah, who needs peer reviewed medical journals when you have the Daily Mail...

noblehead said:

Carborexia............. :lol:

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Hmmmmm. Is that really funny?

noblehead said:

To me if you are happy and content with your control and diet then you are less inclined to jump on others who may do things somewhat differently, over the last week or two I have seen a growing band of people who seem to think that it is fitting to attack those who include carbohydrates as part of a healthy well balanced diet, derogatory terms such as ''Carboholics'' has been used more than once to refer to members who choose to eat some form of carbs in their diet.

Demonising carbs and dictating what members should and shouldn't eat has no place on a forum such as this which attracts a wide diversity of people controlling their diabetes by various methods, thankfully these members who use words like ''Carboholics'' are very few and far between and the majority of members here are more than happy and content to follow a low carb/reduced carb/moderate carb diet without needing to resort to insults or scare tactics concerning carbohydrates.

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So Sid and Richard are tree huggers!
"To exhibit carborexia is to have an extreme dark green attitude towards environmental issues. This can show itself as excessive recycling and in other ways, but in particular it refers to an obsessive desire to reduce one’s personal carbon footprint. The term first appeared in an article in the New York Times on 17 October. The adjective is carborexic." :lol:

Sid Bonkers said:

borofergie said:

In the words of Clara Barton (the founder of the American Red Cross):
"I have an almost complete disregard of precedent, and a faith in the possibility of something better. It irritates me to be told how things have always been done. I defy the tyranny of precedent. I go for anything new that might improve the past."

Click to expand...

In the words of the Who (one of the best rock bands of all time) 'Dont Get Fooled Again'

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More of an "Anarchy in the U.K" type myself coming from the Punk generation. The establishment just needs a good kicking now and then to make way for new ideas and to sweep away old dogma. The thought of that keeps me happy and positive.

Reading this article, the writer says she was already below 7 stones when she started feeling ill. Wouldnt anyone who was so underweight feel ill? and her marriage broke up - so that would make anyone depressed?

I see this article as just another proof that becoming obsessed with anything is bad for us, whether it be carbs or counting the amount of leaves on a tree.

Blaming carbs for this writers obsessive, paranoid behaviour is just silly. She could have substituted just about anything in her article of the words 'carbs' and it would have worked.

Some people have no sense of moderation!!

Daily Mail Carborexia artice said:

And it felt great, most of the time. I adored never having that full feeling after a meal, and because
I was still eating protein and vegetables, I usually had enough energy. Very occasionally I would feel slightly light-headed in the afternoon, and in a to-hell-with-it moment attack the biscuit jar (and afterwards feel very guilty). However, I have no doubt that had I carried on with a super low-carb diet long term, I would have started to feel less and less well. And psychologically it never did feel right

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So eating a low-carb diet
(1) felt great most of the time
(2) left her with the adorable feeling of never feeling full after a meal
(3) gave her enough protein and veg so that she usually had enough energy

but
(4) she felt slightly light headed sometimes
(5) has no doubt that she would have felt less well if she'd done it longer

Another outstanding piece of journalism from the Daily Mail. I didn't get as far as the bit where presumably she equated low-carbers to asylum seekers.

Unbeliever said:

I don't believe there is any mystery about it. The diagnosis in itself is enough to cause depression. The treatment or advice given to most T2s at least, will exaerbate this and for some people a drastic change of diet could be very depressing but for more than the obvious reasons.

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My thoughts exactly Unbeliever. Regardless of whether its T2D or whatever if you tell somebody something is wrong then give them bad advice that doesn't work or don't tell them the truth it's no wonder that person would get depressed.

borofergie said:

) has no doubt that she would have felt less well if she'd done it longer

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Mrs Grazer said she'd have felt less well but happier if I'd done it longer............. :crazy:

So there are no takers for the forbidden term causing depression? Most people find the opposite - it is effective and therefore
is more likely to cure depression in those previously suffering from unconrolled diabetes

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I wasn't going to say anything for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread and also because we've been here before, a bit of deja vu.And since I started writing , there have been a whole page of answers.

I think a set of people replied in this way.
There may be another set of people who have tried this way of eating but are no longer present or reply on the forum.( a bit of research in the archives will find some of those) There may be people here who feel differently but are reluctant to post on the thread . There maybe some people even on the thread that feel a bit down but it helps to affirm that there is no problem(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) Quite honestly we don't know.

It is no more right to say that low carb diets are not at times associated with depression than Hana's doctor saying that all people on low carb diets are likely to become depressed.

The Australian study mentioned by Hana found more sustained improvement in mood in the non low carb dieters (though this wasn't apparent in the preliminary report, everybody felt better at eight weeks but at one year the LC dieters mood levels had fallen back. The subjects by the way were 'normal' , no depressive tendencies, none of them outside norms either at baseline or at the end.
http://w3.palmer.edu/long/documents/C50 ... ed2009.pdf

I think that there are possible physiological reasons that LC diets may be associated with depression. (and sorry but there will be a lot of ifs, possibles and mays... there are no certainties ; for a start how do you define depression?)

A recent study on T1s found higher levels of depression than the control group and lowered trytophan levels .(now this lowered trytophan may not be present in T2s, but depression is most definitely common in diabetes of all types... there may of cause be many other possible reasons for this)
Trytophan is the precursor to serotonin, a neurotransmitter in the brain.that plays a role in mood(drugs like prozac and other SSRis target the uptake of this neurotransmitter) Trytophan is a protein but is a very small molecule and has to compete with other proteins for a transporter to cross the brain barrier. If it is in 'competition' with other proteins less of it is likely to be able to do this. A carb rich meal rather than one with more protein facilitates this. A low carb meal might therefore lead in some people to low levels of serotonin. There also are people who may be said to be self medication by carbs, in some people, eating fast acting carbs acts a s a temporary mood enhancer . The release of serotonin temporarily relieving exisiting depressive symptoms. (chocolate anyone)
Easy versions of the Serotonin hypothesis
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/res ... ieting.htm
http://www.banchanida.com/foodnmood/014.html

If you want peer reviewed journals I can supply them otherwise look up WurtmanJ and Wurtman R

I'm a bit worried that having now touched the Daily Mail this morning, that I'm now suffering from "racistexia".

As usual a well argued response Phoenix. But not sure that feeling good after eating a Cadbury's flake solves manic depression...... :lol:

There are also different types of depression, and degrees.

For example, if I was depressed because of my job, I dont think any alteration in my diet would remove that. I may feel physically more able to cope because I feel healthy and energetic, but the panic attacks and black cloud going into work would remain.

I speak as one who has had depression and still has anxiety issues and panic attacks.

The more I am on here, the more I realise that we are all different, and our bodies need different amounts and combinations of food. Some of us are carnivores, some are herbivores, and most are omnivores with varying proportions of food groups to let us function correctly.

Which, as a newbie, is both infuriating and interesting. Thank goodness you guys told me about testing my own blood for my own personal response to food. Thank you.

Manic depression, bipolar disorder, is not something to be flippant about. It is one of the worst mental illnesses that anyone can have the misfortune to be diagnosed with and cannot be compared with varying levels of depression.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthin ... order.aspx

phoenix said:

The Australian study mentioned by Hana found more sustained improvement in mood in the non low carb dieters ...

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Are there long term studies to show higher rates of depression occurring in countries where the carb / fat / protien ratio is skewed towards diet being low(er) carb? That would be interesting to see. If you previously had a sweet tooth and got the serotonin hit I can understand why depression could result short term but that could be treatable by meds, cognitive behaviour therapy or simply telling people eating 85%+ chocolate is fine. Wouldn't serotonin levels stabilise in the medium and long term anyway once the sugar carb cravings subside? It would also depend on how well the person was progressing. If they were seeing positive results in terms of their condition, weight loss etc wouldn't that increase their serotonin levels. Lots of things effect a persons mood not just what they eat.