Who has had depression due to low carbing?

[xyzzy]

Hunting around to rebut the low carb depression thing. Here's a couple I've found so far, highlighting is me.

Psychological benefits of a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet in obese women with polycystic ovary syndrome—A pilot study (2011)

Abstract

This study compared the psychological effects of a low-protein high-carbohydrate (LPHC) diet and a high-protein low-carbohydrate (HPLC) diet in women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). Twenty-five overweight women with PCOS were matched for age, weight, and whether they were trying to conceive. They were randomly allocated to the LPHC or HPLC diet for 16 weeks. All participants attended a weekly exercise, group support and educational program. The Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale and the Rosenberg Self Esteem Scale were administered at the beginning and end of the study. The HPLC diet was associated with significant reduction in depression and improvement in self-esteem. There was no change in any psychological measures for the LPHC group. There was no difference in weight loss between the groups. Due to enhanced feelings of well-being, it is possible that HPLC diets may be associated with better compliance and hence be more successful in the long term treatment of obesity.

or one that shows the wrong kind of foods can cause depression

Fast-food and commercial baked goods consumption and the risk of depression (2007)

Abstract
Objective Whereas the relationship between some components of diet, such as n-3 fatty acids and B-vitamins, and depression risk has been extensively studied, the role of fast-food or processed pastries consumption has received little attention.
Design Consumption of fast food (hamburgers, sausages, pizza) and processed pastries (muffins, doughnuts, croissants) was assessed at baseline through a validated semi-quantitative FFQ. Participants were classified as incident cases of depression if they reported a physician diagnosis of depression or the use of antidepressant medication in at least one of the follow-up questionnaires. Cox regression models were fit to assess the relationship between consumption of fast food and commercial baked goods and the incidence of depression.
Setting The SUN (Seguimiento Universidad de Navarra – University of Navarra Follow-up) Project, Spain.
Subjects Participants (n 8964) from a Spanish cohort.
Results After a median follow-up of 6·2 years, 493 cases of depression were reported. A higher risk of depression was associated with consumption of fast food (fifth (Q5) v. first quintile (Q1): hazard ratio (HR) = 1·36; 95 % CI 1·02, 1·81; P trend = 0·003). The results did not change after adjustment for the consumption of other food items. No linear relationship was found between the consumption of commercial baked goods and depression. Participants belonging to consumption quintiles Q2–Q5 showed an increased risk of depression compared with those belonging to the lowest level of consumption (Q1; HR = 1·38; 95 % CI 1·06, 1·80).
Conclusions Fast-food and commercial baked goods consumption may have a detrimental effect on depression risk.

 

[Unbeliever]

Don't you think xyzzy that there is always some confusion beween low carbing for weight loss and low carbing for reduction of blood glucose?
If we try to seperate the two issues would we get totally different results? I am not disagreeing with anything you or anyone else has posted and I know that the majority of diabetics are overweight on diagnosis but I am constantly sruck by the fact that so many studies could just as easily refer soley to overweight and obesity issues and not diabetes.

 

[clairy clutterbuck]

I have just read this post with great interest as I have been trying to lower my carbs over the last few years and have finally having read opinions on "what is low carb", settled on about 75g to 90g a day with the odd day if we go out being about 100g. I have been feeling low this week and after reading the varied opinions on here have come to the conclusion that how can we know if following a lower carb lifestyle causes depression. Am I alone in thinking life just isnt on an even enough keel to tell? My life is full of joy but I have had many periods of disaster and am not sure I can blame my diet for how I felt, but its an interesting thought.

Oh, and I settled on my level of carbs after reading several debates in diabetes UK, so dont stop discussion your opinions - they are very helpful indeed even for people like me that have been diabetic for a while but are only recently getting to grips with it all. I also based it on when I started tinkling for Britain!! Goodness, what is that all about.

On a light hearted note (cos its bedtime :crazy: ) my husband has lowered his carbs, not that he's diabetic but because he saw I was losing weight and wanted some of that! After yet another night of both of us heading for the little house at least 3 times each he commented as he passed me by "are we playing tinkle tag again? :lol:

Oh and just to add since lowering my carb intake my glucose monitor has not been in an 8, nearly always in the 5's, 6's and 7's with an occasional 4 so am hoping for a good result this quarter.....

 

[xyzzy]

Don't you think xyzzy that there is always some confusion beween low carbing for weight loss and low carbing for reduction of blood glucose?
If we try to seperate the two issues would we get totally different results? I am not disagreeing with anything you or anyone else has posted and I know that the majority of diabetics are overweight on diagnosis but I am constantly sruck by the fact that so many studies could just as easily refer soley to overweight and obesity issues and not diabetes.

Yes I was saying a similar thing in my posts yesterday and at some point I was saying a similar thing in the tome I usually write for new members but recently its fallen off my list. I do strongly believe the reason LC gets a bad press is because people associate it with a diet in the common everyday meaning of the word and they associate with the VLC fanatics of the past.

From the studies I've seen there seems to be little difference in the weight loss properties of a low carb high protien diet compared to a high carb low fat one. Both work. The difference is a high carb low fat diet does not give enough blood sugar control in my opinion unless you take meds to go with it.

To me carbs are just a means for a T2 to gain control of blood sugars primarily and the dietary benefits while a bonus are secondary. To be honest calling it a low carb diet makes it an open target for those who oppose a low(er) carb view imo. That's why I and others would like to rename it to something less emotive like controlled carb rather than low carb. Under that controlled carb name the grams / day issue becomes irrelevant as people would understand and accept it to mean someone who controls their carbs to achieve safe levels.

I really don't see what is so dangerous in that yet others on both sides seem threatened by it.

It then moves the whole argument on from this ridiculous and outdated "carb war" debate that vested interests on both sides keep trying to continue for whatever warped reasons they have. I would like to discuss more meaningful things like what is the safe level, why aren't people told what is safe by their HCP's, why do we lag behind current thinking in this country, how do we change perceptions at the events people like ladybird recently visited, how best to do something over T2 testing and stuff like that. Challenge and hold to account the system and the establishment is my belief.

Like ladybird said yesterday its time to move on and leave the past behind.

 

[Unbeliever]

I wasn't around during "carb-wars" either but when i first started reading this forum a couple of years ago the fall-out or collateral damage was still obvious and confused me a little . I suppose it delayed my really getting to grips wih reducing carbs and improving my levels.

This forum is about health which is an emotive issue. The troublemakers may be long gone but some well meaning people people who had done their best to help others got hurt in the process. Sensitivities remain. That's life.
This place is very important to many people.
I think its great that there are so many newer people prepared to help others and to introduce new ideas but there is a great deal of suspicion around.
Personally I have learnt a great deal from this particular discussion and thank everyone concerned as usual But then. I am quite a srong person- I have o be. maybe others are more sensitive,.

 

[Grazer]

Don't you think xyzzy that there is always some confusion beween low carbing for weight loss and low carbing for reduction of blood glucose?

Totally! People often comment on the fact that I manage on about 150 to 180 grams of carbs a day. Fact is, this gives me an HbA1c of 5.9, although I suspect probably a fair bit lower now (might find out soon) I could get a lower HbA1c by dropping the carbs more, and would be happy to, BUT my weight problem is the opposite to most peoples here. With a BMI of 22, I'm a tad on the light side and struggle to keep my weight up. My weight undoubtedly drops rapidly with carb reduction (lost nearly 2 stone quickly on diagnosis and carb reduction) so I keep my carbs up as high as is reasonable commensurate with maintaining a good HbA1c. If I was overweight, I'd drop my carb intake a lot more. With me, it's about juggling carbs, BG and kilos.

 

[xyzzy]

With me, it's about juggling carbs, BG and kilos.

Some of us are still looking forward to having that problem :lol:

Agree with what you're saying entirely.

 

[catherinecherub]

With a BMI of 20.5 I am not going to cut the carbs that I eat as my blood sugars are under control. I don't want to rely on snacks to keep my weight stable. We all seem to be different as to why we cut our carbs to the levels that we do and why some of us feel the need to snack and some don't.

May be the title of a new topic needs to be,
Are you depressed because you are overweight? This would be a highjack here but it wouldn't be the first one on this thread. :lol: :lol:

 

[viviennem]

Don't you think xyzzy that there is always some confusion beween low carbing for weight loss and low carbing for reduction of blood glucose?

Totally! People often comment on the fact that I manage on about 150 to 180 grams of carbs a day. Fact is, this gives me an HbA1c of 5.9, although I suspect probably a fair bit lower now (might find out soon) I could get a lower HbA1c by dropping the carbs more, and would be happy to, BUT my weight problem is the opposite to most peoples here. With a BMI of 22, I'm a tad on the light side and struggle to keep my weight up. My weight undoubtedly drops rapidly with carb reduction (lost nearly 2 stone quickly on diagnosis and carb reduction) so I keep my carbs up as high as is reasonable commensurate with maintaining a good HbA1c. If I was overweight, I'd drop my carb intake a lot more. With me, it's about juggling carbs, BG and kilos.

I haven't posted since page 2, because (despite appearances!) I am not a low-carb fanatic, though in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity. I recognise that what works for me is not suitable for everyone else, and I hope I give that impression now when I post advice. I hate these 'how many angels can stand on the head of a low-carb pin' debates because all too often they result in ill-humour and the thread goes completely off track.

Having said that . . . my personal experience of low-carb began pre-diabetes, when I weighed over 20 stone and was very miserable because nothing I did seemed to get the pounds off. I tried Atkins thinking it might kill me, but knowing that I would most certainly die if I didn't do something! I wouldn't call my mood 'depression', though you can if you want to. I had no enthusiasm for life and felt helpless. I couldn't see anyway out of a blank endless tunnel.

No one was more surprised than me when the pounds started dropping off and I found myself almost on a 'high', caused by the wonderful feeling of being in total control for the first time in my life. I also noticed that my blood glucose dropped, though I was only tested twice a year then, fasting only.

I lapsed, for reasons I don't need to go into, and slowly but surely the weight came back - over 21 stone this time :shock: and a diagnosis of Type 2. I had the remedy - back on my low-carb diet. Off came the weight, down came the BGs. It works for me.

For me, weight is the problem because that leads to insulin resistance. I have learned that I don't lose weight at 70g carb per day. I can gain weight at 100g carb per day, and my BG also starts to rise. Some people may find this unbelievable, but this is what my scales, my meter and carb counting tell me.

As for depression on diagnosis - well, if being told by a "specialist" that Type 2 is progressive, and that nothing will stop that progression to insulin, blindness and amputation, if CHD or a stroke don't get you first, doesn't lead to depression, I don't know what will!

It just made me angry, which is a great motivator.

We are all different. I'm for the term 'carb control' because it seems so much less emotive, both within and without this forum, than 'low-carb'. In my case, I control my carbs to a very low level, because of the way my body works.

Viv 8)

 

[xyzzy]

As for depression on diagnosis - well, if being told by a "specialist" that Type 2 is progressive, and that nothing will stop that progression to insulin, blindness and amputation, if CHD or a stroke don't get you first, doesn't lead to depression, I don't know what will!

It just made me angry, which is a great motivator.

Would be interested in knowing if you think the specialist was a complete idiot or a great motivator Viv. Similar to my DSN who told me attaining normal blood levels as a T2 was impossible so don't bother trying. Nice lady but I wonder if she realised just how angry and determined that statement made me.

 

[borofergie]

I am not a low-carb fanatic, though in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity.

Yes me too. I still get it from one paranoid member.

 

[xyzzy]

I am not a low-carb fanatic, though in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity.

Yes me too. I still get it from one paranoid member.

Reminds you of "The Prisoner" doesn't it. "I am not a low-carb fanatic, I am a free man!" (or woman in Viv's case) :lol:

 

[Grazer]

in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member

It's because you wear a cloak, a funny hat and a moustache....maybe not the moustache :***:

 

[WhitbyJet]

Thank you Viv
I use low carb to help me control my diabetes but am not some kind me fanatic or fascist.

Fair to say that my family enjoy low carb meals but they have additions There is also a well stocked fruit bowl around.
Sadly every so often I receive via PM links to a particularly nasty low carb blog .
I ignore, I am no bully, each to their own I am posting recipes for people to try. I am a happily married mother of three,~have a part time job and do voluntary work in the community. I have no time for aggression, but I have noticed that certain older members are a bit edgy whenever low carb is mentioned. The forum must have been quite scary back then, I started lurking towards the end of the big change over in moderation team and must admit I didn't feel comfortable to join until much later.
I have a couple of friends with diabetes, one of whom would never ever able to eat low carb the way I do. With thanks to Catherinecherub who provided me with information to pass on to my friend, she is successfully managing her diabetes.

 

[Dillinger]

I am not a low-carb fanatic, though in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity.

Yes me too. I still get it from one paranoid member.

Reminds you of "The Prisoner" doesn't it. "I am not a low-carb fanatic, I am a free man!" (or woman in Viv's case) :lol:

I however, am a low carb fanatic!

Also I quite like the idea of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity; sounds like the Masons gone bad...

I agree that the angels on pins argument is as redundant as it is boring, but I kind of also feel it is a fake argument. Surely, no one with half a brain was saying people must be at such and such a level to be considered a low carber?

I'd like to be able to eat more carbs (who wouldn't?!) but alas have to keep my intake to around 30 grams a day (an Atkins induction type level).

That doesn't mean anyone else has to, but nor does it mean that my response to people with problems with their diabetes control shouldn't be; 'cut the carbs'.

Do you see what I mean? Or am I getting lost in the semantics of it...

Anyway we should all consider this when becoming enraged with doctrinal disputes;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

Best

Dillinger

 

[xyzzy]

Yes me too. I still get it from one paranoid member.

Reminds you of "The Prisoner" doesn't it. "I am not a low-carb fanatic, I am a free man!" (or woman in Viv's case) :lol:

I however, am a low carb fanatic!

Also I quite like the idea of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity; sounds like the Masons gone bad...

I agree that the angels on pins argument is as redundant as it is boring, but I kind of also feel it is a fake argument. Surely, no one with half a brain was saying people must be at such and such a level to be considered a low carber?

I'd like to be able to eat more carbs (who wouldn't?!) but alas have to keep my intake to around 30 grams a day (an Atkins induction type level).

That doesn't mean anyone else has to, but nor does it mean that my response to people with problems with their diabetes control shouldn't be; 'cut the carbs'.

Do you see what I mean? Or am I getting lost in the semantics of it...

Anyway we should all consider this when becoming enraged with doctrinal disputes;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

Best

Dillinger

No you're saying what everyone else is I think. You stick at 30g because of a personal blood level target. Presumably you aim in your head for such and such an HBA1C and try your best to hit it using the methods you feel are most appropriate. It's only if you try and ram your methods down other people throats that makes you a fanatic. In my case I have a personal HBA1C target and do LC + Met + "Herbs" to achieve it doesn't make my viewpoint any better than anyone elses and I'm quite happy in posts I make to new members to say eat high carb and take loads of drugs if that's what you want.

Everyone is different and maybe even more importantly everyone should be allowed to be different. The important thing is to allow each person to make an informed choice and that's where I see the problem to be as the information provided by the "establishment" does not allow the average diabetic to make that informed choice. Carbs are just one aspect of the overall thing and unless we can move on from that VLC / LC / GI argument we have no chance in addressing the wider problems and no chance that the establishment will take any of us seriously.

 

[hanadr]

I am a dedicated low carber. I have really no other choices if Idon't want to have to load up on medication. My HbA1c hasn't been out of the 5s for seveal years and I've struggled sometimes not to let it go up. My weight is also a problem. Initially, 3/4 years ago, I lost about 17kg, but now I'm fighting to hold it down. I weighed 65 kilos in my early 20s and would be happy with 75kg now, but I don't seem to be able to get below the high 80s. I'm 171cm tall, so it's FAR TOO HEAVY. If I ate 100carbs per day, my bg would rocket and I'd not be able to get through a door.
My aim is for around 30carbs per day, but I may go up as high as 50 sometimes.
I've used ketostix and I find I can't get a positive reading.
When I said that 50kg per day is a commonly accepted definition of low carb, I didn't mean that no other definition exists [or i would have said so] and it's a figure I've come across frequently in my reading. Guideline amounts, as on a pack of Burgen Bread in my cupboard is 230carbs per day.
At least one study on "low carb" had the paricipants eating about 200carbs per day.
I was merely questioning a statement , purporting to have come from a diabetes doctor,relayed to me by someone. I never heard the original, so can't say it wasn't suffering from a "Chinese Whispers" effect.
By getting bogged down in petty word games, we fall into the same trap as some Health Care Professionals. That of not listening properly to what is said/written.
English is a language capable of very preccise statements and also of being used very sloppily. I try to use it precisely as well as grammatically.
Hana

 

[xyzzy]

Another carb / depression study. This one says no difference in mood but your processor speed can drop on a low carb high FAT regime. Shame they didn't also compare Low carb high PROTIEN. Does say low carb high fat gave a greater weight loss though.

Low- and high-carbohydrate weight-loss diets have similar effects on mood but not cognitive performance (2007)

1,2,3
Angela K Halyburton, Grant D Brinkworth, Carlene J Wilson, Manny Noakes, Jonathan D Buckley, Jennifer B Keogh and Peter M Clifton
1 From the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation—Human Nutrition, Adelaide, Australia (AKH, GDB, CJW, MN, JBK, and PMC); the Department of Physiology, University of Adelaide, Adelaide, Australia (AKH); and the ATN Centre for Metabolic Fitness and Nutritional Physiology Research Centre, University of South Australia, Adelaide, Australia (JDB)
Background: Low-carbohydrate diets are often used to promote weight loss, but their effects on psychological function are largely unknown.

Objective: We compared the effects of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat (LCHF) diet with a conventional high-carbohydrate, low-fat (HCLF) diet on mood and cognitive function.

Design: Ninety-three overweight or obese participants [ ± SEM age: 50.2 ± 0.8 y; body mass index (in kg/m2): 33.6 ± 0.4] were randomly assigned to an energy-restricted (≈6–7 MJ, 30% deficit), planned isocaloric LCHF diet or an HCLF diet for 8 wk. Body weight and psychological well-being were measured by using the Profile of Mood States, Beck Depression Inventory, and Spielberger State Anxiety Inventory instruments at baseline and fortnightly. Cognitive functioning (working memory and speed of processing) was assessed at baseline and week 8.

Results: The LCHF diet resulted in significantly greater weight loss than did the HCLF diet (7.8 ± 0.4 and 6.4 ± 0.4 kg, respectively; P = 0.04). Both groups showed improvements in psychological well-being (P < 0.01 for time), with the greatest effect occurring during the first 2 wk, but there was no significant difference between groups. There were no significant between-group differences in working memory (P = 0.68), but there was a significant time x diet interaction for speed of processing (P = 0.04), so that this measure improved less in the LCHF than in the HCLF diet group.

Conclusions: Both dietary patterns significantly reduced body weight and were associated with improvements in mood. There was some evidence for a smaller improvement in cognitive functioning with the LCHF diet with respect to speed of processing, but further studies are required to determine the replicability of this finding.

 

[borofergie]

I however, am a low carb fanatic!

Yeah, me too. I'm fanatical about low-carbing, I think that you have to be to make it work. But I'm also fanatical about Middlesbrough Football Club, and I'm not stupid enough to try and impose that point of view of anyone else.

You can be a fanatic without being a fundamentalist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

Dead right. The only people we hate more than the low-carbers are the ****ing Judean People's Front. :thumbup:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I am not a low-carb fanatic, though in my early days on this forum I was suspected (and accused) of being an undercover member of the trouble-making fraternity.

Yes me too. I still get it from one paranoid member.

Really who would that be Stephen? Its not like you to make personal comments is it? :lol: