What was your fasting blood glucose? (full on chat)

[HarryBeau]

Morning...sitting here sniffing away I knew there was something lurking in the background...I have a cold!...waiting for the deluge that we are expecting...I do need to go out for supplies but wondering if I can stretch out what I have instead of facing the rain & high winds predicted...woke to an unsurprising 6.9

 

[Viv19]

So two cups of tea (with milk - it has to be) I’ve finally tested. 6.7. Hmmm. Aggravation could well be included in that number, especially the battle to cut the blasted batteries out of their sealed-in safety. :-/

 

[Muddy Cyclist]

5.6 today 6 am sorry about your cold Bubbsie, I have one, caused havoc on my Monday bike ride, light head, thought it was my Blood Sugar but luckily the result of a cold I hope and not a flare up of my Fibromyalgia.

Debandez what energy you have! Below are some thoughts on what you are fighting for.

Many of the T2D’s on this site and it’s forums know there is a frightening amount of poor advise handed out by most NHS professionals. What you are doing to change this is amazing and although I do not totally understand all that you report, I am learning, I am also sure I have missed many posts and this next comment may have been discussed.

Case 1 Me Muddy cyclist.
I was diagnosed T2D in April and had all the usual bad advise from the health centres Diabetic Specialist Doctor. Fortunately it is in my nature to question, in this case medication, diet, long term expectations, choosing to do nothing until I have done some research. Even when I returned to the same Doctor and explained my plan of action, no meds, LCHF diet, increased exercise he was not supportive, still offering medication and playing the ace card “you could well be insulin dependent in 3 months” sorry I know I have posted that comment before. I am now sure I made the correct decision but there was always that niggling doubt because the Doctor is the professional.

Case 2 My next door neighbour.
My next door neighbour was just diagnosed T2D and saw the same Doctor who I am sure gave him the same advise. My neighbour thinks the doctor’s advise is great and agreed to take the medication and eat all the wrong foods, thinking cutting out some sugar in his tea, eating less chocolate and biscuits and eating low fat everything will do the job. He knows the success I have had since April but really is not interested in finding out how LCHF diet could help, or how medication may harm him, his choice of course.

My point is a huge part of the population is like my neighbour, honest decent people who trust professionals and do not question. So for the majority any program that the NHS rolls out will be seen as the correct approach. People have the gift of freewill and make their choices so need alternative options offered to them and of course they are not. I am not sure how or if you will combat this but really admire your efforts and hope you have real success.

PS I tried to fill in the latest NHS survey about the new Type 2 website they want to launch. Sadly it does not work properly on my iPad making in impossible to complete, and the questions are very strange, sums up the NHS.

 

[PenguinMum]

Morning All. 6.3 today and I think it is because Ibaccidentally missed lunch then at 4pm I snacked on rollitos and cold bacon from the dridge and then a few hours later had dinner and then Oppo. It works best for me to stick to small brekkie, small lunch and then dinner. I had given up snacking a while ago. This routine keeps me happy.
@Bubbsie hug from afar for the cold, it really does feel like winter. @SaskiaKC what a sweet pic of the KC though hope she didnt unravel your bed. Hug to her from B&D for the storm. @Debandez the things we do for our children, well done to you and Eric, brilliant job. I am either off to Kent later but more probs tomo morning to collect my lovely friend from hospital and look after her for a few days.
Batten down the hatches everyone. Stay well, stay safe.

 

[HarryBeau]

My point is a huge part of the population is like my neighbour, honest decent people who trust professionals and do not question.

I wholeheartedly agree MC...I have a friend diagnosed several years before me she is in the most awful mess...now dependant on ever increasing amounts of insulin she was badly advised by her health care team...however there is another edge to her journey...after my diagnosis like you I researched & followed the advice I felt best for me LCHF...my BG came down & my general outlook on the management was optimistic...I have tried to persuade my friend to adopt some of the changes I have made & said while she has complications any small improvement she could make would be a benefit...she refuses...whist criticising the advice (or lack of it) she has received from her HCP's she refuses to change anything at all...she is content to blame all her ills on her GP & her DSN...so knowledge is powerful but only if you are prepared to make good use of it.

 

[HarryBeau]

hug from afar for the cold, it really does feel like winter

Thanks PM & I understand you keeping your distance...it's just a summer cold & I'm relieved that it's not just my bad management causing those 6's & the odd 7...I'd have eaten the rollitos bacon & the ice cream too!

 

[gennepher]

I gave a funny vote, obviously not for the weather, just for the emoticons.

I like a bit of humour first thing, to give me a smile to start the day...

 

[geefull]

good morning all

4.4 today

had a good lunch yesterday and then didn't feel the need for much at dinnertime, I think that's why I woke up hungry this morning

Over to mum's today to drop off some nice big free range eggs and do a bit more tidying before her visitors arrive tomorrow. It's still too wet to do any grass cutting but if it is still dry by the time we get there (which is debatable) I may trim a bit of hedge. Yesterday I treated myself in the charity shop to another pair of trousers for gardening, (maroon stretchy jeans ) but when I tried them on last night I'm wondering whether to keep them for ordinary wear.

I'm getting bolder with the trousers now, am I not, after my initial trepidation?

Hope your day treats you well

 

[PenguinMum]

I like a bit of humour first thing, to give me a smile to start the day...

Oh me too Gennepher ..I too enjoyed them!

 

[gennepher]

I wholeheartedly agree MC...I have a friend diagnosed several years before me she is in the most awful mess...now dependant on ever increasing amounts of insulin she was badly advised by her health care team...however there is another edge to her journey...after my diagnosis like you I researched & followed the advice I felt best for me LCHF...my BG came down & my general outlook on the management was optimistic...I have tried to persuade my friend to adopt some of the changes I have made & said while she has complications any small improvement she could make would be a benefit...she refuses...whist criticising the advice (or lack of it) she has received from her HCP's she refuses to change anything at all...she is content to blame all her ills on her GP & her DSN...so knowledge is powerful but only if you are prepared to make good use of it.

Absolutely no one that I have told about me doing LCHF have been approving or supportive. Even my family. In fact everyone I have told have been to the point of hysterically telling me that -
You will die
You must follow the advice you were given (the nurses and dieticians advice led to increased blood sugar readings and more meds and then more meds)
You mustn’t test your blood sugar so often, you will get an infection
All my internal organs that I will irreplaceably damage by doing LCHF, this was in graphic detail by the dietician
And so much more which actually scared me

And so I was wavering for a long time. Doing it ‘their’ way but my readings went up and more meds and it was don’t worry we can give you more meds. Then trying LCHF which brought my readings down, and trying to get nurse, doc, dietician etc on my side and explaining. The dietician was the worst in really scaring me with his words and manner of all the bad things that would happen to me by not following his conventional advice, he said he was trained and I was not and that LCHF was a fad thing on the Internet and he brought his face within a few inches of mine as he said this. I would call his behaviour abusive. We parted company on not very good terms. No one treats me like that.

That was the push I needed to totally disregard the current nhs advice on diabetes. And using LCHF I am now in single figures. But this is still a work in progress for me.

Go to dash. I would like to say more but I am now very late. I will look in tonight to read this thread.
Take care x

 

[Viv19]

5.6 today 6 am sorry about your cold Bubbsie, I have one, caused havoc on my Monday bike ride, light head, thought it was my Blood Sugar but luckily the result of a cold I hope and not a flare up of my Fibromyalgia.

Debandez what energy you have! Below are some thoughts on what you are fighting for.

Many of the T2D’s on this site and it’s forums know there is a frightening amount of poor advise handed out by most NHS professionals. What you are doing to change this is amazing and although I do not totally understand all that you report, I am learning, I am also sure I have missed many posts and this next comment may have been discussed.

Case 1 Me Muddy cyclist.
I was diagnosed T2D in April and had all the usual bad advise from the health centres Diabetic Specialist Doctor. Fortunately it is in my nature to question, in this case medication, diet, long term expectations, choosing to do nothing until I have done some research. Even when I returned to the same Doctor and explained my plan of action, no meds, LCHF diet, increased exercise he was not supportive, still offering medication and playing the ace card “you could well be insulin dependent in 3 months” sorry I know I have posted that comment before. I am now sure I made the correct decision but there was always that niggling doubt because the Doctor is the professional.

Case 2 My next door neighbour.
My next door neighbour was just diagnosed T2D and saw the same Doctor who I am sure gave him the same advise. My neighbour thinks the doctor’s advise is great and agreed to take the medication and eat all the wrong foods, thinking cutting out some sugar in his tea, eating less chocolate and biscuits and eating low fat everything will do the job. He knows the success I have had since April but really is not interested in finding out how LCHF diet could help, or how medication may harm him, his choice of course.

My point is a huge part of the population is like my neighbour, honest decent people who trust professionals and do not question. So for the majority any program that the NHS rolls out will be seen as the correct approach. People have the gift of freewill and make their choices so need alternative options offered to them and of course they are not. I am not sure how or if you will combat this but really admire your efforts and hope you have real success.

PS I tried to fill in the latest NHS survey about the new Type 2 website they want to launch. Sadly it does not work properly on my iPad making in impossible to complete, and the questions are very strange, sums up the NHS.

I’m not sure what’s better, sometimes bad advice or not much at all. I don’t have the kind of ‘back-up’ here with diabetes clinics, d nurse etc that appears to be offered in the uk. I do have a supportive gp, but although I would class her as one of the really good gps, especially with diagnosis, she hasn’t offered much advice re diet, apart from putting me on Metformin about 5 yrs ago after saying that I was pre-diabetic. She’s supporting my LC diet (I haven’t mentioned the high fat aspect because I can’t really manage to eat HF) and and me giving up the Metformin. I know she’s pleased about my weight loss and she keeps an eye on my bg levels.
She’s good, but if I hadn’t found this forum I’d be whistling in the dark. It’s clear though that we have to be prepared to help ourselves. After all nobody is going to care about your health as much as you do (well except perhaps for a switched on partner or a mum!). Your health is down to you and if you wait to be taken by the hand and told step by step exactly what’s best for you, well it probably isn’t going to happen, unless you are very very lucky.
In the end there’s only one person who will be affected by the sneaky snack that nobody else sees. It’s difficult though to cancel ‘low calorie’ thinking and replace it with ‘low carb’ thinking. The first is weight/figure threatening, the second is life/serious condition threatening.
Sorry about the waffle. Something came over me. It started as a comment. :-/

 

[HarryBeau]

he dietician was the worst in really scaring me with his words and manner of all the bad things that would happen to me by not following his conventional advice, he said he was trained and I was not and that LCHF was a fad thing on the Internet and he brought his face within a few inches of mine

I do remember that post gennepher I was horrified by his behaviour...the same advice was given to me by my GP at my initial dx who at my first review with him tried to put me on maximum medication despite my BG's coming down from 17.4 to under 8.0 after 12 weeks...I refused & wrote to him after that we discussed LCHF & some of the material I used to decide which diet I should follow in order to manage my diabetes...shortly after he told me he had began to recommend some of that reading material to his newly diagnosed T2 patients...it beggars belief that the trained professionals are so entrenched in their opinion of what's best for us based on their training...not on research & development...pretty typical of my experiences & possibly others at the hands of their health care professionals

 

[HarryBeau]

I don’t have the kind of ‘back-up’ here with diabetes clinics, d nurse etc that appears to be offered in the uk.

On a cynical note Viv perhaps you were fortunate you didn't have the kind of 'back-up' we have here...which often can lead you down the wrong path...although you are fortunate with your GP who is at least prepared to be supportive...my start with my GP was disastrous however after a lot of hard work & discussion it improved dramatically.

 

[Muddy Cyclist]

Absolutely no one that I have told about me doing LCHF have been approving or supportive. Even my family.

That's very sad! I am lucky all my family and friends have been very supportive, yes there is some humour from my Mountain Biking, Folk Band beer drinking and Choir Cake and wine swilling friends but I can take that. I suppose we have a very active social life being retired and even when going to meals with friends they try and do the low carb meal. It must be very hard if there is little support.

Two of my friends are nurses, we were away with them in France and they really tried to ensure I fed myself properly and took my bloods on time. It became clear they struggled with what T2D is as each evening before bed my BG was 5.3 and they were genuinely concerned I would not make it through the night insisting they would give their patients some carbs before they let them sleep. Of course i ignored them and got through the night with higher BG in the morning which they found very strange. NHS still have a lot to learn.

 

[dunelm]

Have a look at DUK's site it reads:

Almost half (45.6%) of those who took part in the programme were in remission after a year.

The second year results of the trial showed that, of these people, 70% were still in remission by the end of year two.

Overall, more than a third (36%) of people were in remission of their Type 2 diabetes two years after taking part in the programme.

I would say the information is misleading...badly presented & according to them the study is not even finished yet...like patting yourself on the back before you've finished the race.

The studies themselves appear sound. Starting with the 2007 stuff; The metabolic abnormalities of type 2 diabetes can be reversed reproducibly by bariatric surgery and then the restricted diet stuff; correct research, good use of statistical analysis using SPSS and peer reviewed. I wouldn’t want to read some third party stuff and what DUK have done with it remains to be seen. Probably as useful as something appearing in a newspaper. Scientism is not the same as science.

 

[Debandez]

From Google it looks like the YouTube app come installed on iPad...decent bit of kit.
It'll be perfect for playing YouTube.

You'll just need to follow the guides and make your own account.
Then it knows who you are....
And like any good shopkeeper
They then remember the things you like and for youtube , that's what you like watching or listening to.

Playlist, just let you order a list of songs (or videos) under a heading you like. Smooth, upbeat, runtracks, dancing, etc

And you decide the order, and can click forward to next track or skip ahead to one that's a particular favourite

The world is moving fast., PM

I dumped a load of video tapes at recycling centre yesterday .went into rubbish
No longer use CDs for films, all streamed or online
Same with music
And I ditched an old Tom Tom other day because sat nav on Google is so much easier..car or walking.

Missus n Steph, went to Rome.
I street mapped how far walking AND the route for them for various sites ....before they went and sent it to their phones

Gave them the confidence to walk the routes rather then get ripped off by taxi drivers...had a great time.


What we did yesterday, isn't how we do it today,
Where will it all end...lol

But we adapt and use the tech to OUR advantage ... and that's the joy of learning

It gives us options.

Have a good un, @PenguinMum

And then there's vinyl. I was going to throw mine but then someone said they could be collectors items. Now that makes me feel old!!!

Me and Eric off on our jolies 22nd. We fly to Rome for 3 days to start. My ears pricked up at your route maps! We plan on walking, and walking then walking some more. Could I be cheeky.....

 

[Debandez]

fbg 7.1

Doing well.
Clouds but maybe the sun will peek out.
I wonder what delights and joys Tuesday will bring.
Have fun!
Take care x

>^..^<

Brilliant score in the door!!!

 

[Debandez]

Morning all, the meter of unpredictability spat a 4.9 at me at 5:30am, now it was sitting there all mildly juvenile, like it wanted a fight, like the gangs roaming the streets back in the late eighties where I used to live. Just hanging around, daring you to say something to it, so I didn't just took my number and left. Coughgate has finished with my wife and she has began her chemo again, but mine has decided it wants to lurk and surprise you at the moment you are taking a drink, cue spilling it down your top and the wife spitting her coffee everywhere because she's laughing so hard! Ahh the joys of a lurking cough, or should that be lingering cough? Tune in tomorrow for more tall tales of wonder.


Take care everyone. And above all enjoy it.

Coughgate is scandalous! But very funny at the same time.

 

[dunelm]

Prev Post


point taken, @dunelem

i rather think it's more a case of over presenting a failure as a success.

as far as i understand it.

"The first year results showed that it’s possible for some people to put their Type 2 diabetes into remission using a low-calorie, diet-based, weight management programme, delivered by their GP. Almost half (45.6%) of those who took part in the programme were in remission after a year.

The second year results of the trial showed that, of these people, 70% were still in remission by the end of year two.

Overall, more than a third (36%) of people were in remission of their Type 2 diabetes two years after taking part in the programme."

OR

Sadly after a whole year of the programme, only 45% of those patients returned their BG levels to Pre diabetic stage.

By the end of year two, 100 out of the 149 failed to reach or maintain remission* less then 48mmol
(* Pre diabetic levels NOT Normal levels)

• 
  
  
  • Normal: Below 42 mmol/mol (6.0%)
  • Prediabetes: 42 to 47 mmol/mol (6.0 to 6.4%)
  • Diabetes: 48 mmol/mol (6.5% or over)

It's just so demoralising.

i just see so many on here with a change of diet that isn't something stolen from Tenko,
that makes a REAL difference to their health in months.
HBA1c in my case down to normal 40%
and i was slow AND higher then most..other have smashed that HBA1c score, and maintaining it.



Wish i could find the video of THIS guy talking
he states the case FAR better then i ever could.

https://www.livingloud.org.uk/single-post/2018/12/14/International-Diabetes-Summit-2018

i quote part here, but all of it is worth quoting.

"I am delighted that the NHS and DUK finally acknowledge that type 2 diabetes can be put into remission through diet.
It just beggars belief that you would subject 5,000 people to a brutal starvation diet
when surely good science would trial low cal, against the moderately low carb vs keto options too
so we can all discover which is the most effective way to help people."

Dan Parker.

Interesting isn’t it. This all started out with pathogenesis; The metabolic abnormalities of type 2 diabetes can be reversed reproducibly by bariatric surgery. Two important questions emerged: Do we have the ability to adjust our environment and avoid the primary causes of type 2 diabetes? What distinguishes those individuals who appear resistant to the metabolic challenge, remaining normoglycaemic in the face of little exercise and much eating?
So - too much eating was looked at in very small study (11 patients and 9 controls) with the hypothesis; “Type 2 diabetes is regarded as inevitably progressive, with irreversible beta cell failure”.
The hypothesis was tested that both beta cell failure and insulin resistance can be reversed by dietary restriction of energy intake. So a move from bariatrics to fuel restriction.
This was all science. The problem is then, I suggest, that third party funding then takes science into the realms of scientism.
The DiRECT study in itself is not bad but a more sensible approach may have been to bluntly tell people that we need to a) cut our daily intake of food to sensible levels, b) do that by cutting carbs and c) moving more.

I’m going to look up Dan Parker now.

 

[dunelm]

That's very sad! I am lucky all my family and friends have been very supportive, yes there is some humour from my Mountain Biking, Folk Band beer drinking and Choir Cake and wine swilling friends but I can take that. I suppose we have a very active social life being retired and even when going to meals with friends they try and do the low carb meal. It must be very hard if there is little support.

Two of my friends are nurses, we were away with them in France and they really tried to ensure I fed myself properly and took my bloods on time. It became clear they struggled with what T2D is as each evening before bed my BG was 5.3 and they were genuinely concerned I would not make it through the night insisting they would give their patients some carbs before they let them sleep. Of course i ignored them and got through the night with higher BG in the morning which they found very strange. NHS still have a lot to learn.

Interesting isn’t it that our so called health professional have poor knowledge about T2D - I believe that the lower limit for neuropathy is roughly 7 and that many people only look at a fasting reading. I seem to remember that @jjraak may have posted a study on this but not sure.