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American Diabetes Assoc. promotes low carb

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by HSSS, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  2. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yay! (I wonder if my local GP will listen to this argument now? And spread the word?)
     
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  3. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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  4. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I agree - truly a Christmas miracle.
     
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  5. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    We thought it would never happen. Now all the diabetes 'experts' will need to quietly eat their diet advice words.
     
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  6. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Great news.
    Things are actually starting to change for the better !
    Now if only we can have the same progress on Saturated Fat and Cholesterol.
     
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  7. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That's great news and although it doesn't need a reason, I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of treating type II with drugs is part of the reason, I'm sure the insurance companies will be pleased.
     
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  8. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    When I read your post I had a very mean thought that I hoped that eating their diet advice words gave then indigestion. Although perhaps not that mean when you think that those words probably help contribute to a lot of foot amputations.
     
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  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Perhaps we should be thanking Virta. After all, their ongoing track record is providing clear evidence of improved bg control, reduced drug use and better health outcomes for T2s in America. Hard to ignore stats like this:
    https://www.virtahealth.com/
     
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  10. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    Though poetic justice might suggest their advice gave them diabetes....
     
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  11. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Yes - I absolutely agree - that definitely would be poetic justice.
     
  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hard to ignore? - I disagree, since Virta are I the business of selling their services so the same charges of Bias can be levelled at them as at Big Pharma or Big Food. So on a rational comparative basis, the UK results of Roy Taylor (Newcastle Diet) and Dr David Unwin ( a Southport GP) are much more trustworthy.

    Having said that, of course I believe the Virta studies (to a large extent), but then I have personal experience of the benefits of LCHF.

    Do I believe the Virta studies - Yes, but then I have personal experience of the benefits of LCHF or LCHP .
     
  13. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    In my opinion it’s the methodology and definitions of remission (or whatever one chooses to call it) that inform me as to whether a study, or a collection of clinical evidence (as in the case of Dr David Unwin) is reliable/believable. Virta operates in a healthcare system which is privatised and necessarily charges for it’s services. To my mind, their long-term study of patients eating real food constitutes highly valid and reliable evidence.
     
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  14. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So we both agree that for us the Virta is valid and reliable evidence. But that is because of our personal experience and our level of education on the subject.
    However does this apply to the general public?
    Not from what I have seen on Twitter or YouTube.
    There, the average person may be prey to conspiracy theorists and thus distrust any 'paid for' research or even anybody who has a related book deal.
     
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  15. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Promoting LC to stay relevant it seems to me. They seem to be offering it as an option, but I wonder how often this option will be offered?
     
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  16. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the way Doctor Unwin's approach e.g. he asks patients if they want to try a low carb method or take medications knowing that these medications are treating symptoms, have side effects and tend to beome less effective over time.
    A food solution for a food problem is logical but it will always be hard to prove if the gold standard of research is RCTs which you obviously cannot do with real people eating real food.
    There is a similar problem with the obesity research where most of the world is clinging onto the paradigm of obesity being caused by energy imbalance. Gary Taubes set up a research company to try and prove/disprove this hypothesis but hasn't managed to do so yet.
    The next interesting thing to see will be the 2020 US FDA guidelines to see if there's been any shift in those following the valiant campaigning that has gone on to ensure that the guidelines are backed by more than just epidimology.
     
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  17. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think the charges are a $500.00 one off and $370.00 pcm, which equates to circa £3,816.06, so around £318.00 per month. Whilst this is expensive for a private individual, these costs would be clawed back within an holistic management program in know time (I actually think most people could get by on half or even a quarter of year (£159.00 or £106.00),

    I can't speak for others but I would have begged and borrowed to have
    • Medical supervision and medication reductions from a physician-led care team
    • Unlimited one-on-one support from a dedicated health coach
    • Access to a private online peer support community
    • Smart scale, blood glucose/ketone testing supplies, and
    • more are included in the cost and delivered right to your front door
    • Mobile app for tracking biomarkers, messaging with coach
      and peer support group, and access to Virta resources
    • Step-by-step nutrition education program with curated
      resources and meal plans
    Having this comprehensive hand holding would have put my mind at rest at a difficult time, and perfect for someone who likes a systematic approach. Eric Westman has similar results and I know Dr Fung / Megan Ramos and Dr Ted Naiman change the status of the patients diabetes so get great results also.

    The ADA's statement is "game changing" and profound, especially when you consider the pressures from food, beverage, pharma and religion; it provides David with stone to slay Goliath. Nowhere for NICE and other associations to go now.
     
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  18. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Which is why there should be a "Prove It" campaign, compromised of 2 to 3 areas

    Area 1, waist to hip ratio, an excellent general health proxy.

    Area 2, The Gold standard in my view is a £15.00 blood glucose monitor to see what your own body says about the food choices and what this does for you via fbg, before meal and 30 minute intervals up to 3 hours. Argue with that at at your peril and this is truly individual and without bias.

    Area 3, A private fasting insulin test (if affordable), again a proxy measurement to confirm where one is heading.

    No matter what dietary protocol is being followed, the first 2 tests for an family of 4 works out at about £4.00 per person to tell the truth about choices with no lectures hypothesis etc.
     
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  19. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Virta health is now selling their services on a "payment by results" bases to the US health insurance companies, so they only get paid if a pt improves A1c and reduces drug costs.
     
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  20. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Virtahealth charges are setup differently when a person is not self funding. People finding out about lowcarb and still feeling the need to sign up to Virtahealth will tend to result in self funded pt needing more long term surport then many people sent to Virtahealth by their insurers and/or employers.

    Remember Virta health also takes over all the management of diabetes drug hence reducing the number of GP appointments thst need paying for.
     
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