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Lost,scared,angry type 2.

L

LCHForever

Member
Messages
9
Hi all.
I was diagnosed with type 2 in October. Had been in the prediabetic range for the previous year but was going through a tough bereavement and didn't really take it on board or understand the implications.
I went to endo who barely looked up from the desk and just shoved forms at me for retina screening and long term illness registration. I went on a BP tablet as that was high. I refused metformin and cholesterol meds much to his annoyance. I am back to the clinic in May and was told if I didn't improve I would have to go on meds.
I felt I'd got myself into this mess through poor diet and lack of exercise but he didn't want to know and I also felt it must be possible to change the situation by improving both.
I went online and found Michael Mosley, Roy Taylor and David Unwin's work.
I started on the 8WBSD and immediately felt better. I was sent to a DESMOND course during this time. I found it very poor. One of the facilitators was a super patronising dietician who brought plastic food to play with!.
I said I was on a LCHF diet and her eyes rolled. She asked did it have a name and I said no as knew what she was up to. She said she would come back to it later on.
She later more or less said these diets were a fad and there was no evidence to support them!!. She said if you stopped doing it the type 2 would come back. Unfortunately I was too new to it to take her on but even then knew that any plan won't work if you stop and medication won't work if you stop.
I got 6 1/2 weeks of 8WBSD done before Xmas and had my bloods checked. My HBA1c was down from 54 to 45 (42 is normal). Fasting glucose normal and cholesterol vastly improved.Lost 11kg too.
Then I hit Xmas and like every other year I lost control completely and ate everything and put some weight back on. I have not got fully back since then but have kept 10kg off.
I have just under 8 weeks now to my follow up appointment and need to hit the plan strictly again. I am getting more exercise in and feel I can get motivated again.
I feel so angry that this food plan was never and has never been suggested to me, that the first response is medication.
I have no support in this so far as have no family nearby and only told a couple of friends about the diagnosis.
My GP is supportive of me doing the plan but I only see them when I'm sick.
I have a lot of weight to lose too and so it's important to keep going for that reason too.
That's quite an essay but I feel better for even writing it.
I would appreciate any tips on keeping going and motivation. I'm vegetarian too so any tips on that would be great too.
Thank you.
 
I can relate to your frustrations as I also experienced most of them 5 years ago in the months after diagnosis. Fortunately I discovered this friendly and knowledgeable community. I was also lucky to have a consultation with a young, NHS dietician who, when pressed, recommended no more than 30g of carbohydrate in any one meal. Out of all the conflicting advice, I decided to create my own meat-free dietary plan based on LCHF. I have normal blood glucose levels and no complications to date although my total cholesterol levels have increased.
All meals are based around a protein source and I am now fitter and healthier than I have been for years. I have let the frustrations go but do attend all medical appointments. I ask for and expect particular blood tests to be done e.g. Vit D and B12. I do filter the advice given and have done my best to learn as much as I can about Type 2. I am much more confident about trusting how I feel and if I am slipping into the dreaded carb-creep I revisit this forum. Reminding myself of the potential complications also helps.
Knowledge is definitely power and no-one is going to be as interested or invested in my future health as I am!
 
You can absolutely try this without meds, or give it a **** good go with good chance of achieving your goal of doing it by lifestyle. Cholesterol blood pressure and weight usually improve too. Most of us tackle it with low carb eating. Carbs all turn to glucose and processing glucose is what us type twos do badly.

There’s a vegetarian section in these forums I believe. Might be worth a look there. Can I ask your motivation in being vegetarian. Only because some have chosen that believing it will improve their health. Sadly it’s usually very carb heavy and as such not good for type 2’s. It can be made to work if you’re motivation is other, but it is trickier than as a meat eater.

I’ll tag @daisy for some welcome information for you and @JoKalsbeek who has good information about low carb but she’s probably not back online til tomorrow. The thread https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/ might give you food ideas. Also dietdoctor.com has great info and recipes.

Google any food you like with the word keto or low carb and you’ll get adapted recipes of your favourites and lots more sites to explore. Be aware American sites count carbs differently. The use total carbs which include fibER and net carbs that don’t. All uk and most of the rest of the world count net carbs automatically without the word net and list fibRE separately.

Are you testing your own blood with a meter? Regardless of what you’ve been told it’s almost essential so you know what your foods (and drinks and other factors) do to your body. We all vary a bit but it’s the carbs that do the damage. And stress, illness, sleep, exercise but mostly carbs. It’s pretty much normal to not get a meter and not unusual to be dissuaded from using one. Ignore it and get one. Structured testing is the only way you can see for yourself what different foods do and then adjust accordingly. @Bluetit1802 has info about cheaper meters to use. The cost is in the strips not the machine.
 
LCHForever said:
I have no support in this so far as have no family nearby
Click to expand...
Well, you do now Welcome to the best place for support and for hanging out with like minded. I'm T2 too, and have been through loss and bereavement while trying to sort out my health. That didn't go too well. I'm back on the track now, and I'm sure this forum will help get you there too. It did me.
I know there are some vegetarians here. I can imagine that being a Low Carbing vegetarian is a bit more tricky than being a carnivore, but in case you don't know dietdoctor.com I did a search for vegetarian recipes for you. They might motivate and inspire you. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes?s=vegetarian&search=&st=recipe
Do you have a BG meter? I find that using it helps me keep on track, so I recommend it to anyone who'll listen.
Edited to remove tags. Someone beat me to it, as per usual
 
Welcome LCHFForever! I spent much time in denial and still have to catch myself before I slip back into it fairly often. Like you, I discovered LCHF and read up on it but that's fairly recent, so it's still quite new to me. When I make a choice I research it as fully as I can, and I've settled on LCHF with intermittent fasting. I am also surprised that GPs and DNs don't seem to know or understand this very effective tool.

For motivation there's nothing like reading and posting on the forums here, at least for me. I post what I'm up to and it helps me feel a little bit accountable - although I also post about lapses and own whatever happens - the encouragement from others is fantastic.

I don't know if you use dietdoctor - https://www.dietdoctor.com/ but I'm finding that very helpful.

I also use a ketone meter when I'm on track with LCHF and intermittent fasting, and although the strips are horribly expensive, it really does motivate me when I see that I'm registering ketones and therefore burning my fat! You don't have to test all the time, I do one or two a day, and not at all when I know I'm not in ketosis. I also use a BG meter, but you can get combo monitors like the on call duo. My bg meter links to MrSugr, and I love data to help keep me motivated too.

My aim is to take on more extended fasts, as I believe this will give me the best chance of improving insulin sensitivity and losing weight. It's half term for me now, so I really need to do damage limitation and make sure I don't fall off the wagon too much. I'll keep you company!

I can't help with the vegetarian side of things but there is a vegetarian sub-forum on the Food and Nutrition forum. There are bound to be some people doing veggie LCHF.

Very best of luck!
 
If you don't already have a meter then I strongly urge you to buy one so you can test before and 2 hours after a meal to see instantly what that food has done to your levels, giving you chance to tweak some of your choices.

The most popular meters for self funding T2's are the Codefree and the Tee2+ because the strips are much cheaper than other meters, and you need a lot of strips. You can't buy them in pharmacies.

Try here for the Codefree meter
http://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/blood-glucose-monitor/

and here for the extra strips
http://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

There are discount codes if you buy in bulk. (applied at the check out stage)
5 packs 264086
10 packs 975833

The Tee2+ is here
http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product-category/shop/tee2/

Don’t forget to check the box that you have diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for either meter)
 
You do sound as though you are doing pretty well all things considered so don't be too hard on yourself. It is hard to go against so called professionals who should know better. This group is amazing and will always be here to answer questions and provide support and encouragement.
 
Hi and welcome. The LCHF diet works because it's based on knowledge of how the body's metabolism works for carbs, fats and proteins. David Unwin GP has been a key person on this forum for years and fully understands how it works and the benefits. Dr Mosely tends to follow diet fads. I've been following his TV programs and books for a few years now and he has a different view each year. Prof Roy Taylor created the Newcastle Diet. I haven't much time for it as it's focussed around calories which are not a food and largely irrelevant in what you eat. Calories do have some relevance in what energy you actually use (but not what you consume). The ND does work to an extent but the LCHF life-style can be used long-term as it focuses on causes. Fats may have high calories but contribute little to weight gain whereas carbs have low calories but are the main cause of weight gain. If you keep the carbs down and have enough fats and proteins you can continue it for life as the fats and proteins reduce hunger. The ND may not do that as it doesn't define the food mix you eat. So, keep doing what you are doing and hopefully you will have success. BTW many of us tend to fail over Christmas.
 
Anger is very destructive - so is fearful anticipation - try to let of of both and work from a less disruptive state.
Be assured that it is perfectly possible for a lucky type two (like me) to remove the problem of being unable to cope with carbs by eating fewer high carb foods.
You do need to look at the carb content of foods and reassess your diet, and there is a vegetarian section on the forum - but you did not make yourself diabetic. As you have found out, the solution is not something a lot of HCPs are willing to even think about, but that is their problem, you don't have to take it on board.
I do take a wicked delight is achieving such things as normal blood pressure, blood glucose levels and a good level of Hba1c. I save a particular smile for the nurses I have come across in the last 18 months or so. It is my 'go on ask me' smile. They never do - but they know why I am amused at their expense, or at least I hope they do.
I would try it on my doctor, but I have not seen him since diagnosis - I suspect he could be sulking.
The only problem I have with an ongoing commitment to eating a low carb diet is the constant need to buy remake or make new clothes - and even my feet have shrunk but luckily I kept my old boots and shoes, though I can't really envisage wearing the platform sole electric blue patent leather boots which make me almost 6ft tall - but I can get them on and zip them right up to the knee now......
 

welcome : )

paging @daisy1 for her excellent advice
 
Welcome to the forum @LCHForever. You have already made substantial progress; you have also found, like a lot of us, that it is easy to fall off the diet at Christmas and harder to get going again. You are getting back into the routine, and have not lost too much ground so dust yourself down, hold your head up and go forward again. Weight loss will tend to happen with the LCHF diet. In my case it was steady and gradual, just a pound a week, but I was pleased with that because I now have no loose skin, it had time to shrink back as my body changed back.
For motivation I initially set myself a target of a sponsored walk to raise money for a local charity, just 5 miles but it was further than I had walked in a long time. The following year I aimed to do it faster and at a pace more than 4mph. By that time the people around me were aware of my diagnosis and I had a developed a pattern of eating that coped with summer and winter diets, balanced my weight and my bg levels. I know I was lucky and I still monitor my bg carefully. It is a way of life.
Anger is useful if it accomplishes a change, but if not why waste your time, raise your blood pressure and generally make yourself uncomfortable? Channel that energy into achieving something positive, showing that your diet is sustainable and that your weight loss is also for life. Don't be annoyed with yourself either, you did not ask for the genealogical anomaly that makes you more susceptible to T2. Get your body moving and set your own targets, compare yourself only with yourself . You can do this with the support of this group and a little determination. Best wishes.
 
Hi and welcome,

I'm so sorry things went the way they did. You're not alone though, loads of people here have gone the LCHF route -me too- and met with some resistance... And kept going anyway. Because it worked.

I have a little nutritional thingy, but just ignore all the bits about meat, okay? I'm too sleepy at the moment to edit any offending texts out. But seriously... Keep an eye on your vitamins and minerals. We get deficient quite fast. Supplements may be a serious option. In any case, here goes:

There’s a few things you should know.

1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested, so not just straight sugars, but starches too. Food doesn’t have to taste sweet to make your blood sugars skyrocket.

2. A meter helps you know what foods agree with you, and which don’t. Test before and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, the meal was carbier than you could handle. (It’s easy to remember, as you’re a T2: all 2’s, all over the place!)

3. In case you didn’t know already, this isn’t your fault. It’s genetics, medication, decades of bad dietary advice, and basically all manner of things, but nothing you can actually blame yourself for.

4. Diabetes T2 is a progressive condition, unless you (also) change your diet. So you have options. Diet-only, diet with medication, or medication only. But that last option will most likely mean more medication over the years. (And there is more than just metformin, so if it doesn’t agree with you, there’s lots of others to try). So even if going really low carb isn’t for you, you might consider moderately low carb an option, with meds to assist.

5. Are you overweight? 90% of T2’s are. Yeah, that means 10% are slim and always were. If you did gain weight, it was the precursor of this metabolic condition. We make loads of insulin, but become insensitive to it. So carbs we eat turn to glucose, and normally, insulin helps us burn that glucose for fuel. When it doesn’t, that glucose is stored in fat cells instead. When those fat stores are full, the glucose remains in our bloodstream, overflowing, into our eyes, tears, urine, saliva… And then we’re T2’s. So weight gain is a symptom, not a cause. This also means that “regular” dietary advice doesn’t work for us. The problem lies in our inability to process carbs. And most diets focus on lowering fats and upping carb intake. Which is the direct opposite of what a T2, or prediabetic, for that matter, needs.

6. There are 3 macro-nutrients. Fats, protein and carbohydrates. Those macro’s mean we get the micro-nutrients we need: that would be vitamins and minerals. So… If you ditch the carbs, you should up another macro-nutrient to compensate, to make sure you don’t get malnourished or vitamin deficient. Carbs make our blood sugars rise. Protein too, but nowhere near as bad as carbs do, so they’re alright in moderation. Fats however… Fats are as good as a glucose-flatline. Better yet, they’ll mitigate the effects of any carbs we do ingest, slowing down their uptake and thus the sugar-spike. Contrary to what we’ve been told for decades; fats are our friends.

7. Worried about cholesterol? On a low carb diet, your cholesterol may rise a little as you start to lose weight. That’s a good thing though. (Believe it or not). What was already there, stored in your body, is starting to head for the exit, and for that it’ll go into your bloodstream first. So when you have lost weight and it stabilises, so will your cholesterol. And it’ll probably be lower than what it was before you started out.

8. You’ll lose weight on a low carb diet. Weight loss will help with your insulin-resistance, and not only that… Going low carb might help with other issues as well, like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and depression.

9. Always ask for your test results. You don’t know where you’re going, if you don’t know where you’ve been.

10. Last, but certainly not least: If you are on medication that has hypoglycemia listed as a side-effect, like Gliclazide for instance, do NOT attempt a LCHF diet without a meter nor your doctors’ knowledge/assistance. You can drop blood glucose levels too far, too fast, if your dosage isn’t adjusted accordingly. This could mean a lower dose in stages or even stopping medication completely. Never do this without discussing it with your doctor first!


So what raises blood sugars? Aside from the obvious (sugar), starches raise blood glucose too. So bread, and anything made with grain/oats flour, rice, potatoes, pasta, corn, cereals (including all the “healthy choices”, like Weetabix and muesli), most beans and most fruits. So you’ll want to limit your intake, or scratch them altogether.

Which food items remain on the shopping list? Well, meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, cheese, heavy cream, full fat Greek yoghurt, full fat milk, extra dark chocolate (85% Lindt’s is great!), avocado, (whole) tomatoes, berries, olives, nuts, that sort of thing… Meal ideas? Have a couple:

Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonnaise, capers, olives and avocado
Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.

Snacks? Pork scratchings, cheese, olives, extra dark chocolate, nuts.

Of course, there’s loads more on the web, for people more adventurous than I. (Which is pretty much everyone). Just google whatever you want to make and add “keto” to it, and you’ll get a low carb version. There’s a lot of recipes on the diabetes.co.uk website, as well as on www.dietdoctor.com where you’ll also find visual (carb content) guides and videos. And I can wholeheartedly endorse Dr. Jason Fung’s book The Diabetes Code. It’ll help you understand what’s going on in your body and how to tackle it, whilst not being a dry read. Not only that, but you’ll know what to ask your doctor, and you’ll understand the answers, which is, I believe, quite convenient.
 

Please don't beat yourself up. Firstly you haven't done this to yourself. They stuff sugar in anything and more or less everything. Over 50 different names for sugar.

You have had a lot on your plate and making yourself a priority wasn't your priority! But now it is. The time is right for you to focus on improving your health. Don't look back. Best foot forward. The good news is that LCHF woe is so beneficial and will definitely reduce your hba1c. Usually very quickly. It reduced my BP too and I lost an awful lot of weight on my journey. You've got this.
 

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@LCHForever
Hello and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it interesting and helpful.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:
  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

  • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why

  • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
 

No one here has to explain to us why they are vegetarians or vegans it is their choice just as it is your choice not to be so is not up for criticism. Many here are vegetarians and are managing their diabetes perfectly well
 
This is such a brilliant response! I've learned some things and, more importantly, had some reassurance about things. Thank you JoKalsbeek - you are a star.
 
Pinkorchid said:
No one here has to explain to us why they are vegetarians or vegans it is their choice just as it is your choice not to be so is not up for criticism. Many here are vegetarians and are managing their diabetes perfectly well
Click to expand...
I think you’ve taken this the wrong way. There was no criticism. It was more of a rhetoric question with my motivation for asking explained, which also served to make my point regardless of the answer. I was not criticising just pointing out that some people choose to do it believing it helps and not realising in the case of diabetes the typical added carbs hinder. I went on to say it was possible just a bit more tricky than for meat eaters.
 
Hey. I’ve been doing this for years ver thirty years now. Just two things I think.
Dieticians work to policies set by their registration organisation. They’re often not up to date.
Secondly, don’t ever make your management of this disease about them. That way lies confusion. Use your own common sense and trial and error. I’m not saying don’t get healthcare or take medication. But I wish thirty years ago they’d talked about alternative therapies. Then it was here’s the meds now off you go. You know low carb works for you. So do it.
And if you binge, forgive yourself. Not met anyone perfect yet.
 
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