P:E dieting

[muzza3]

Just brilliant, much, much, much better than a food frequency questionnaire. Real cross referenced results, with yourself as the control, good scales. I think your protocol is great.

Thanks so much. The suggestion to use body contour scales was a great one as it adds that extra dimension you mentioned

 

[Krystyna23040]

Great results!! Yes looking forward to trying maintenance on this diet down the track where as I understand it you set grams of protein at your maintenance weight in pounds and lift combined fats and carbs to match that IE: PE Ratio of 1:1

I think my problem is that my maintenance weight is quite low - so grams of protein are not that high. To stop myself losing weight too fast I have been matching it with grams of fat together with the 20g carbs. So I am assuming that as grams of protein shouldn't go over the lbs of my maintenance weight I will need to increase fat a little to stop further weight loss.

Does this sound right or have I got it completely wrong.

 

[Krystyna23040]

I don’t know whether you’re on Twitter, but this guy is worth a follow: https://twitter.com/hormonedietdoc?s=21

Thank you. Very interesting link. Have bookmarked it.

 

[ianf0ster]

I think my problem is that my maintenance weight is quite low - so grams of protein are not that high. To stop myself losing weight too fast I have been matching it with grams of fat together with the 20g carbs. So I am assuming that as grams of protein shouldn't go over the lbs of my maintenance weight I will need to increase fat a little to stop further weight loss.

Does this sound right or have I got it completely wrong.

I disagree with some of Ted Naiman's tweets, but I would suggest that raising your protein intake is better long term than is re-introducing more carbs.
Am I correct in thinking you are limiting your Protein to 1 gm per 1lb of 'ideal weight' ? There are a lot of scare stories about the dangers of too much protein, but I have yet to see any hard facts. There are quite a few high profile carnivores in this forum and they would all be starving if limited to 1gm protein per 1lb of target weight!

 

[Krystyna23040]

I disagree with some of Ted Naiman's tweets, but I would suggest that raising your protein intake is better long term than is re-introducing more carbs.
Am I correct in thinking you are limiting your Protein to 1 gm per 1lb of 'ideal weight' ? There are a lot of scare stories about the dangers of too much protein, but I have yet to see any hard facts. There are quite a few high profile carnivores in this forum and they would all be starving if limited to 1gm protein per 1lb of target weight!

Thank you - it is good to know that there are no hard facts against increasing protein over the gram for a lb of ideal body weight.

I must admit that I have quite a small appetite and even though I have conquered my aversion to protein I still struggle a bit to eat up to the gram of protein to a lb of body weight. I am using protein powder to boost levels of protein.

I will keep working on getting more protein from real food - but it does make it less stressful knowing that I can use protein powder to boost levels higher. I also don't like eggs but now eat 14 a week by making a sort of pancake with chia seed protein powder.

 

[muzza3]

I think my problem is that my maintenance weight is quite low - so grams of protein are not that high. To stop myself losing weight too fast I have been matching it with grams of fat together with the 20g carbs. So I am assuming that as grams of protein shouldn't go over the lbs of my maintenance weight I will need to increase fat a little to stop further weight loss.

Does this sound right or have I got it completely wrong.

That how I understand it. Have you considered lifting you carbs a little to see how it goes with your BG?

 

[Krystyna23040]

That how I understand it. Have you considered lifting you carbs a little to see how it goes with your BG?

Unfortunately even a small lift of 5g is too much for liver and pancreas to cope with at the moment.

My hope is that if I continue to lose visceral fat my liver and pancreas will start working more normally. The fat loss is definitely round my waist. Every pound I lose has resulted in almost an inch lost around my waist.

However, I had an hba1c of 125 in 2012 at diagnosis and was put straight on insulin so it may be that the issue isn't too much visceral fat but just a clapped out pancreas because it is highly likely I had undiagnosed diabetes for at least 20:years.

Of course I may still have insulin resistance - or a combination of visceral fat, clapped out pancreas and insulin resistance.

I am hoping that the way forward will become clearer very soon.

Even with all this uncertainty I still feel extremely lucky to be off all insulin.

 

[Krystyna23040]

I was thinking this morning that there was probably another reason why I have to be so strict on the carbs - loss of lean muscle mass because of my age and previous appallingly low protein intake.

Prioritising protein is definitely reversing this. I teach and practice Pilates every day and after only 3 months on the P.E. Diet I am stunned at just how much stronger my muscles feel.

As the P.E. Diet is definitely getting rid of the visceral fat and maybe hopefully will help with the repair of my beta cells it is all looking good.

 

[LaoDan]

I was thinking this morning that there was probably another reason why I have to be so strict on the carbs - loss of lean muscle mass because of my age and previous appallingly low protein intake.

Prioritising protein is definitely reversing this. I teach and practice Pilates every day and after only 3 months on the P.E. Diet I am stunned at just how much stronger my muscles feel.

As the P.E. Diet is definitely getting rid of the visceral fat and maybe hopefully will help with the repair of my beta cells it is all looking good.

Rebuilding muscle and resistance training has made a HUGE difference for me. I’m insulin sensitive after training.

 

[Krystyna23040]

Rebuilding muscle and resistance training has made a HUGE difference for me. I’m insulin sensitive after training.

I am also noticing that my blood sugars seem to be lowering in response to rebuilding muscle. So it must also be increasing my insulin sensitivity. I am so pleased that so many good things are happening since I started prioritising protein.

 

[DJC3]

Well guess what? I’ve lost 3 cm from my waist! I’m amazed.
I’ve been aiming for high PE ratio but failing and most days it’s been just over 1. I’ve gone over my usual keto carb amounts a few times too, only on veg, just trying to pack in extra fibre.
Daily calories far fewer than I’ve been eating previously. Now around 14-15k whereas I was usually over 2k eating full fat Keto.
BG has shown no definite trend yet but I’m hopeful it’ll find a comfortable lowish level.
This weeks measurements have given me the boost I needed, I nearly didn’t bother as my weight is pretty much the same.
With any luck I’ll start to see some shifts in the body fat and muscle figures soon.

 

[Krystyna23040]

Well guess what? I’ve lost 3 cm from my waist! I’m amazed.
I’ve been aiming for high PE ratio but failing and most days it’s been just over 1. I’ve gone over my usual keto carb amounts a few times too, only on veg, just trying to pack in extra fibre.
Daily calories far fewer than I’ve been eating previously. Now around 14-15k whereas I was usually over 2k eating full fat Keto.
BG has shown no definite trend yet but I’m hopeful it’ll find a comfortable lowish level.
This weeks measurements have given me the boost I needed, I nearly didn’t bother as my weight is pretty much the same.
With any luck I’ll start to see some shifts in the body fat and muscle figures soon.

Brilliant waist loss. I haven't hit my PE ratio either, but it is working really well in spite of that. My BG didn't go lower in the beginning either and it was only when I lost more inches around my waist that it started to drop. BS is now consistently low all day long. The best it has been since starting low carb in 2016/17

 

[Goonergal]

@DJC3 and @Krystyna23040 great stuff!

 

[muzza3]

@DJC3 and @Krystyna23040 well done!!

 

[DJC3]

@Krystyna23040 @Goonergal and @muzza3 thank you all very much. I feel much happier now that I know I don’t have to attain a really high PE ratio, I was struggling with all the extra lean protein. I’m pretty sure this is sustainable for me now.

 

[muzza3]

8 weeks.

Weight loss this week 1kg (5.7kg since starting).

Fasting BG 7 day average 5.1
14 day average 5.0
30 day average 5.0


Body contour scales
Body fat down down to 27% (starting 29.8%)
Muscle up 37.5% (starting 35.9%)
Belt in .5 notch (about .5 inch) and in 3 since starting

PE Ratio has been around 1.4 over the week.

Calories averaged 1400 this week

Full on week work wise with end of financial year and as such daytime meals unstructured. Actually having access to Protein Bars because of the diet meant I probably ate more than I would have previously in this sort of week and didn't have to resort to junky takeaway during the day.
Pulled a back muscle early in the week (probably due to my starting a little muscle strengthening exercise and how out of condition I am) and with long workdays and wet weather curtailed my walking activity significantly during the week. recovered now and had a great walk yesterday and resumed planks and isometrics on alternative days

While I aimed to increase protein this week to 172g I was still short of this most of the week but have decided to not get to fixated on the number but to keep as a goal. As other have noted and I enjoy about this diet is that as long as I maintain a positive PE Ratio (in weight-loss mode) I can be relaxed about the overall macros and as I am rarely hungry on this diet (even at low calorie levels) I haven't had to worry about cravings or desire to continually snack.

After eight weeks I am delighted and comfortable with the results and am happy to continue with this style of diet for the foreseeable future.

A few personal observations

When using this diet in weight loss mode it is a low calorie diet

While not undertaken for BG Control (mine were in normal range prior to starting the diet) there has been an improvement with FBG's consistently in the 4.5 to 5.0 range (an improvement of about .5 since commencing eight weeks ago

I am also enjoying not needing to consume High Fat using leaner meats and skim milk in coffee/tea.

While still remaining low carb (generally 70 to 100 g a day) it is a lot more relaxed than previously and allows more options

 

[muzza3]

9 weeks.

Weight loss this week .3kg (6kg since starting).

Fasting BG 7 day average 4.6
14 day average 4.9
30 day average 4.8


Body contour scales
Body fat down down to 26.7% (starting 29.8%)
Muscle up 37.8% (starting 35.9%)
Belt notch no change and in 3in since starting

PE Ratio has been around 1.1 over the week.

Calories averaged 1817 this week

That is 9 weeks of weight-loss each week since starting the diet. I am delighted with that as it is my goal and the diet has been easy and comfortable to use. While I started the diet with normal range BG they have continued to slightly decrease even though my Carb level has doubled since starting the diet (still under 100g most days)

As i have said before, the PE Diet in weight-loss mode is low calorie and low fat by design and the only real challenge I still find is to hit my daily target of 172g of protein. I am more relaxed about this and find it more important to keep my PE Ratio greater than 1.

This is no longer a trial for me and I am definitely adopting the PE Ratio Diet as my go to eating strategy until I hit my weight loss goal when I will change to the maintenance PE ratio to see how that goes as a new eating regime

 

[muzza3]

8 July 2021

10 weeks.

Weight loss this week 1.3kg (7.3kg since starting).

Fasting BG 7 day average 5.0
14 day average 4.8
30 day average 4.9


Body contour scales
Body fat steady at 26.7% (starting 29.8%) Has been as low as 25.3 but fluctuates
Muscle up 37.8% (starting 35.9%) Has been as high as 38% but also fluctuates
Belt notch 1/2 an inch in and in 3.5 in since starting

PE Ratio has been around 1.3 over the week.

Calories averaged 1532 a day this week

That is 10 weeks of weight-loss each week since starting the diet. I continue to be very happy with this diet and have adopted it as my ongoing eating plan. Still continuing in a weight loss mode (ie: ratio of greater than 1:1) until I achieve my next goal when I will review. As my FBG has continued to improve would be very interesting to see how the PE Diet would impact someone with higher BG levels

 

[AndBreathe]

8 July 2021

10 weeks.

Weight loss this week 1.3kg (7.3kg since starting).

Fasting BG 7 day average 5.0
14 day average 4.8
30 day average 4.9


Body contour scales
Body fat steady at 26.7% (starting 29.8%) Has been as low as 25.3 but fluctuates
Muscle up 37.8% (starting 35.9%) Has been as high as 38% but also fluctuates
Belt notch 1/2 an inch in and in 3.5 in since starting

PE Ratio has been around 1.3 over the week.

Calories averaged 1532 a day this week

That is 10 weeks of weight-loss each week since starting the diet. I continue to be very happy with this diet and have adopted it as my ongoing eating plan. Still continuing in a weight loss mode (ie: ratio of greater than 1:1) until I achieve my next goal when I will review. As my FBG has continued to improve would be very interesting to see how the PE Diet would impact someone with higher BG levels

Muzza, I'm not using the PE style of eating, but have used body composition monitoring scales since I started weighing myself about 3 months after diagnosis. For me the fat and muscle percentages can wobble a bit, and I think, but haven't tried to prove it, that hydration has some part in that.

For me, I am a bit hawk-eyed on my visceral fat. When I was trimming up, it was by far the slowest metric to reduce - partly, I feel positive, because although my scales will go up to a 150kg in 100gr increments, visceral fat is measured on a scale of 0-30, with <9 being a "healthy range".

Not sure if that helps at all.

I was part of a recent research study where, as part of an MRI scan, my visceral fat is measured, then calculated as part of a different study. I haven't had the feedback on that element yet, as the PhD student doing that work has a bit of a backlog. Very glad they researchers are getting as much s they can from data collected, and that hey are able to collect on an incidental, "whilst we're there" basis.

Needless to say, I'm interested to learn more about that when my calculations have been done. With as VF score of 3 on my scales I'm not expecting any surprises on it, but in all these things, we have to keep an open mind!

 

[muzza3]

Muzza, I'm not using the PE style of eating, but have used body composition monitoring scales since I started weighing myself about 3 months after diagnosis. For me the fat and muscle percentages can wobble a bit, and I think, but haven't tried to prove it, that hydration has some part in that.

For me, I am a bit hawk-eyed on my visceral fat. When I was trimming up, it was by far the slowest metric to reduce - partly, I feel positive, because although my scales will go up to a 150kg in 100gr increments, visceral fat is measured on a scale of 0-30, with <9 being a "healthy range".

Not sure if that helps at all.

I was part of a recent research study where, as part of an MRI scan, my visceral fat is measured, then calculated as part of a different study. I haven't had the feedback on that element yet, as the PhD student doing that work has a bit of a backlog. Very glad they researchers are getting as much s they can from data collected, and that hey are able to collect on an incidental, "whilst we're there" basis.

Needless to say, I'm interested to learn more about that when my calculations have been done. With as VF score of 3 on my scales I'm not expecting any surprises on it, but in all these things, we have to keep an open mind!

Thanks AndBreathe
Yes I agree the hydration seems to impact the Body Fat Muscle % a fair bit and they do bounce around. Also I visually can see obvious areas of Fat that I need to lose. It would be great if you could chose where to lose it. Will keep an eye out for your results from the MRI scan