They Are Trying To Make Me Sick or Worse

[LooperCat]

It's the notional "threat" of change that is disagreeable. Usually one way lectures and I'm yet to see anyone on the meat eating side interested in imposing their food choices on others

I’ve seen several vegetarians on this very forum told to rethink their ethics and to start eating meat.

 

[lucylocket61]

I’ve seen several vegetarians on this very forum told to rethink their ethics and to start eating meat.

I havent. If you have seen such comments, please report them to the mods.

 

[Mike d]

I’ve seen several vegetarians on this very forum told to rethink their ethics and to start eating meat.

"Told"? News to me

 

[Oldvatr]

Just demonstrating that there are alternative arguments..
Good one to use on vegans who have kids also...

The altenative arguments are generally being suppressed since the media outlets seem to have been entering into funding agreements with Big Biz. Especially the Gaudian who openly admitted it earlier this year.

If you need to know why LC diets get no positive press, then here is the listing of sponsors for the British Nutrition Foundation (BNF). Several other organisations also proudly announced their teaming up with the Vegan Society to actively promote the vegan way of life. ADA AHA LANCET BHF to name a few. These sponsors also support Eat Lancet for Climate Change, and ALSO EAT Lancet for Obesity (as commissioned by our government to provide consultancy on said topic. LC has no place in their world.

 

[WuTwo]

"Told"? News to me

I have it strongly suggested (better?) to vegans & veggies that they will find tremendous difficulty in controlling their T2 when following a vegan diet. ( Y'know, I have four keto vegan cookbooks on my cookery book shelf and they're the ones I fancied out of the choices available........ @Mel dCP is a member of a keto vegan Facebook group ... there are keto vegan websites)

The range of low carb vegan books is fairly wide too.

And yes, I'm afraid I do report it because when one is newly diagnosed, frightened and desperately worried about the future, and has come asking for advice, they may well believe what they're told and compromise their beliefs "for the sake of their health". And then they will feel tremendous guilt with every mouthful they eat..... and I am sure this is not what the members here want to do to people asking for help.

 

[Oldvatr]

I have it strongly suggested (better?) to vegans & veggies that they will find tremendous difficulty in controlling their T2 when following a vegan diet. ( Y'know, I have four keto vegan cookbooks on my cookery book shelf and they're the ones I fancied out of the choices available........ @Mel dCP is a member of a keto vegan Facebook group ... there are keto vegan websites)

The range of low carb vegan books is fairly wide too.

And yes, I'm afraid I do report it because when one is newly diagnosed, frightened and desperately worried about the future, and has come asking for advice, they may well believe what they're told and compromise their beliefs "for the sake of their health". And then they will feel tremendous guilt with every mouthful they eat..... and I am sure this is not what the members here want to do to people asking for help.

Moderators - This forum has a vegetarian diet subthread where vegetarian diet issues can be discussed freely. Can we please have a new subthread dedicated to animal protein where we can discuss these matters in like manner.

 

[Member496333]

Maybe the difference is that there isn’t a group of billionaire carnivores attempting to lobby governments into banning plants from being eaten?

 

[HSSS]

I have it strongly suggested (better?) to vegans & veggies that they will find tremendous difficulty in controlling their T2 when following a vegan diet. ( Y'know, I have four keto vegan cookbooks on my cookery book shelf and they're the ones I fancied out of the choices available........ @Mel dCP is a member of a keto vegan Facebook group ... there are keto vegan websites)

The range of low carb vegan books is fairly wide too.

And yes, I'm afraid I do report it because when one is newly diagnosed, frightened and desperately worried about the future, and has come asking for advice, they may well believe what they're told and compromise their beliefs "for the sake of their health". And then they will feel tremendous guilt with every mouthful they eat..... and I am sure this is not what the members here want to do to people asking for help.

What about those people that are new to trying veganism ( and I mean a recent thing not years) because and only because they are told it will make them healthier or cure their diabetes and not because of a moral view point? Because they believe the scare stories of cancer caused by red meat or that the world will disappear in a puff of smoke due to grazing animals, or that cholesterol will block your arteries and make you drop dead after more than a rasher a week.

Is it not balanced and fair after being told the ilk of the above to point out the keto (or low carb enough to help their type 2) vegan choices are much more limited than high carb veganism or low carb omnivorous eating? That getting a sufficiently wide range of foods will take considerably more work, thought and planning and probably supplements? that high carb eating could very likely make their type 2 insulin resistant diabetes worse? That high carb veganism is the version they are most likely to have encountered so far, that’s a popular option in their local restaurant?

Many newbies come here knowing nothing about low carb or keto but having heard plenty of the vegan claims and have perhaps or perhaps not tried veganism. And good grief, wrapping your head around low carb is challenging enough without removing all animal products if you are not already used to it.

And after being made aware of the narrow path should they choose veganism (Ie made aware of the difficulties and potential pitfalls) are they really being “told” not to be vegan or advised to think about their choice in light of all the information. The same as I’d do about any more challenging and narrow choice possibly being driven by lack of knowledge.

Like you I would hope not but please don’t confuse being told to do or not to do something with being advised of all aspects of it to enable an informed choice.

I will be more careful in my wording if the type of things I’ve read, and quite possibly said, are being misinterpreted as instruction rather than information. I apologise for it if I have but I won’t apologise for provide the other side of the coin.

 

[Member496333]

I’ve seen several vegetarians on this very forum told to rethink their ethics and to start eating meat.

Well stay tuned, because very soon you’re going to see governments telling meat eaters to rethink their ethics and stop eating meat

In fact, it’s already happening. Take a look at Canada. But since you yourself are not a meat eater, I doubt you are too concerned. See how this perspective thing works?

 

[WuTwo]

Trust me when I say that choosing to go vegan is not usually an overnight decision. It's hard. You are going to be different to all your family and friends (probably). Work nights out and lunches can be a nightmare. Even going for a drink can be impossible. It's socially isolating for many of us, and not something we arrive at easily.

People who choose it without conviction in their heart don't usually last long, sadly, before the perceived restrictions outweigh the benefits.

 

[Member496333]

Trust me when I say that choosing to go vegan is not usually an overnight decision. It's hard. You are going to be different to all your family and friends (probably). Work nights out and lunches can be a nightmare. Even going for a drink can be impossible. It's socially isolating for many of us, and not something we arrive at easily.

People who choose it without conviction in their heart don't usually last long, sadly, before the perceived restrictions outweigh the benefits.

None of which has anything to do with the topic that we are supposed to be discussing?

 

[WuTwo]

Incidentally, I only posted at #105 to enhance what Mel dCP said, and then again later to clarify what I'd said.

I'll bow out again now. I can tell my mere presence causes ill-feeling although I don't know why when it wouldn't occur to me to tell someone else how to live their life.

 

[Member496333]

...it wouldn't occur to me to tell someone else how to live their life.

And good for you, genuinely. But that is exactly what this topic is about. Governments around the world being bamboozled into telling meat eaters how to live their life. This discussion has nothing to do with vegans vs. carnivores on the forum. Or rather it didn’t...

 

[HSSS]

Trust me when I say that choosing to go vegan is not usually an overnight decision. It's hard. You are going to be different to all your family and friends (probably). Work nights out and lunches can be a nightmare. Even going for a drink can be impossible. It's socially isolating for many of us, and not something we arrive at easily.

Thank you. My point exactly. It’s hard. But for some reason meat eaters aren’t allowed to say that.

My awareness is that committed vegans -doing so for moral reasons, encompassing all animal products not just diet -are very committed and I respect them entirely for sticking to their beliefs. They will fully understand their choice and be prepared for the hardship.

However these days for many, at least the first step, is purely dietary and influenced by media health scare stories and promises And it is to those people I speak and ask them if they are aware of all aspects.

 

[HSSS]

As Jim says we digress. This topic was about our right to eat meat, not denying yours not to. I too need to step back for now.

 

[Member496333]

However these days for many, at least the first step, is purely dietary and influenced by media health scare stories and promises.

Don’t forget the planet...if I recall correctly, one more cow farts in a field and the Earth will stop turning

 

[LooperCat]

I havent. If you have seen such comments, please report them to the mods.

I have, on several occasions, and they’ve been removed or edited.

 

[bulkbiker]

I’ve seen several vegetarians on this very forum told to rethink their ethics and to start eating meat.

"Told" I doubt that very much..

I will admit I tend to ask vegetarians if they are doing it for moral reasons or "for their health" because if they are here then the "for their health" argument has evidently failed.. in that case I would suggest that re-introducing meat would be a sensible therapy.

 

[LooperCat]

Well stay tuned, because very soon you’re going to see governments telling meat eaters to rethink their ethics and stop eating meat

In fact, it’s already happening. Take a look at Canada. But since you yourself are not a meat eater, I doubt you are too concerned. See how this perspective thing works?

I don’t eat meat because it makes me very ill, very fast: allergy induced respiratory distress. You don’t eat carbs because they make you ill because of your diabetes. Different ends of the same boat - dietary restriction for health reasons. I wouldn’t dream of dictating anyone’s diet to them, and it’s also not acceptable for governments to do it either.

I’m not anti meat in the slightest, I buy and cook tons of the stuff for my husband and son, and look on enviously as they devour it. I didn’t choose my allergies, same as I didn’t choose my diabetes - my immune system is to blame for both. I expect I’d be allergic to the lab grown stuff too, if it’s origin is animal cells. I tried jackfruit the other day, a lot of veggies use it as a meat substitute as it has quite a good texture. Had an allergic reaction to that too...

But language is important, we need to be much gentler towards new people who are joining the forum that don’t eat meat, yet have T2 or prediabetes and would clearly benefit from reducing their carbs. I’ve noticed a lot of newly diagnosed veggies joining the forum for advice, having been told that their diet was perfectly healthy and then never returning after their thread descended into people telling them that it’s practically impossible to remain a vegetarian and keep their legs and eyes. I’m exaggerating a bit, but you get my drift.

Yes, it is much harder to cat carbs if you don’t eat meat, there’s no denying it. But not that long ago it was really hard to find veggie food when eating out full stop - times have changed a lot in that regard. Luckily I’ve found that restaurants etc are more than willing to put together a meal I can eat by picking and choosing different bits from a menu. I’m aware that many of you are completely anti some of the new plant based protein stuff that’s available nowadays, but for those of us that don’t/can’t eat meat they’re fantastic and a great way to get the protein we need. A lot of them are really low carb as well.

But no. Government should not dictate diet.

 

[Oldvatr]

.........>>>>>I don't know why when it wouldn't occur to me to tell someone else how to live their life.

Sorry but that is Exactly what you are doing. I nearly reported Mel's post as being an overt attack on my beliefs too, and I reply to your posts here as being similar in tone. Although I have in the past done what @HSSS said above and provided critique of the diet in the interests of Newbies having informed choice, but it gets shouted down. And I end up facing banning by the Mods simply for putting up what is generally acknowledged as being evidence based information.

Likewise i am here critiquing a political movement that intends to dominate the world markets at the expense of mankind itself, and using the subterfuge of Climate Change as justification. I have looked at the so called scientific evidence backing up this plan and it has indeed been manipulated and corrupted by a dedicated group of agents provocateurs with their own agenda, which by the way has nothing to do with animal welfare or human health and survival. It seems that in this age we no longer have the right to question anything.