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COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

Discussion in 'Other Health Conditions and Diabetes' started by Bill_St, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    and as a simple counterpoint.

    would it be people are taking much more care of their health
    so people taking fewer risks.

    the simple things that passed from one to another to result in deaths
    cold flu etc, are now lower as we all scrub our hands to pieces every time we touch something

    fewer accidents at or on way top work as we have so many staying at home voluntarily or as part of the lock down.
    and way fewer RTA's as less car less peds, less accidents.


    all mounts up to help the NHS cope with the influx of those who, covid brings to hospital,
    in whatever form yet who die of Pneumonia and lack of preparedness for a crisis, clearly indicated since january

    https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1245801302401126400?s=09
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The deaths in the UK from Corona virus are, up until a few days ago, statistically insignificant. Only around 36 on the 16th march, for example. The major rise has been in the last 4 days.

    It will be interesting to see the graph in two weeks, especially as the usual flu season is ending.
     
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  4. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep.
    Watched the death versus. Recovery decline since Jan.
    Down to 6% I think it was it at its best post wuhan... Now climbing day by day..20% last time I looked.
    Oops just checked 21%.


    Best site out there to my mind for daily figures.
    When the BBC said no deaths in UK, they had that detail.
    Way ahead of the MSM, in my opinion.

    Many need to look beyond the bland reassurances of Hancock and co.

    I suppose expected in reflection of a few huge surges in European cities and of course the new York rise.

    Expect worse as America fully accelerates into pole position, thanks to the orange man's flip flopping and " hunches" leading Americans astray.

    Not to diss our own orange men, with their own version on trump speak .
     
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  5. urbanracer

    urbanracer Type 1 · Moderator
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    Just heard some news that made me smile.

    My work mate's grandmother in-law (yes it's a tenuous link) has at the grand age of 94, beaten the virus and is about to be discharged from hospital.

    Of course, I've never met her but somehow feel the need to celebrate any small victory at the moment.
     
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  6. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    . Fully agree.
    We NEED to celebrate such victories

    Stuff YOU Covid. WE WIN this ONE.
    . WHOOP WHOOP ..:D
     
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  7. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Ivor Cummins and Dr Nadir Ali discuss the issue of ACE/ARB medications in the context of Covid-19:

     
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  8. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Okay, this is a long post...apologies...

    I've spent the last couple of days looking for this Septic Shock/COVID-19 Protocol and I finally found it!

    I encourage you to email this link and the links below to your family members so if any of you become seriously ill and require hospitalization, this document can be presented to the treatment team at the hospital... https://emcrit.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-ProtocolPaulMarikMD-1.pdf

    Might be a good idea to forward this information and its links to your physician for review too. Read on...

    -----

    In 2017, pre-COVID-19, part of this protocol was used to successfully treat septic shock. Learn more here... https://www.evms.edu/about_evms/adm...rces&utm_content=medical#medical-professional

    The protocol has since been updated to include strategies used to treat COVID-19 in China and elsewhere. (See first link above)

    And here is some important background information from NPR (2017 & 2020) and JAMA (2020)...

    TREATMENTS
    Doctor Turns Up Possible Treatment For Deadly Sepsis

    March 23, 2017 12:01 AM ET
    Heard on Morning Edition
    [​IMG]
    RICHARD HARRIS

    Twitter

    Click on the 2-Minute Listen button here then read the article... https://www.npr.org/sections/health...turns-up-possible-treatment-for-deadly-sepsis

    -----

    TREATMENTS
    Vitamin Treatment For Sepsis Fails In Large Trial

    January 17, 2020 8:09 AM ET
    [​IMG]
    RICHARD HARRIS

    Twitter

    An excerpt from this article in which Dr. Marik explains why he believes, and I agree, the study failed because the treatment "is only effective if given within six hours after someone has suspected sepsis."...


    "I don't think we can yet say that there is no impact," Coopersmith says. "I think we could say that the jury's still out on that."

    He assumes that doctors who are inclined toward using the treatment will continue to do so, at least for now, while those who adopted a wait-and-see approach are sticking with that.

    Indeed, Marik, who remains a strong proponent of this approach, rejects the findings of the study. He tells NPR that by his reckoning, patients in the study received treatment far too late in the course of their disease. "It's like giving it to a patient who's dead," he says. "It's of no benefit. The horse was out of the barn miles beforehand."

    Marik, at Eastern Virginia Medical School, gives his patients the vitamin C infusion as quickly as he recognizes signs of sepsis. That's impossible to do in a study in which participants must be enrolled in a study and then randomized into one of the two comparison groups before treatment can begin.


    "The question is, why does this study not replicate real-life experience and the experience of hundreds of clinicians around the world?" he asks.

    Marik says in his experience, the treatment is only effective if given within six hours after someone has suspected sepsis. At the meeting in Belfast, Dr. Tomoko Fujii, on the study research team at Monash University, said they provided treatment an average of 12 hours after patients arrived in the intensive care unit. Patients came from a variety of locations, including the emergency room, and she said they have no information about how long they had been septic before arriving at the ICU.

    Full article is here with additional links... https://www.npr.org/sections/health...min-treatment-for-sepsis-fails-in-large-trial
    -----

    Editorial
    January 17, 2020
    Lack of Benefit of High-Dose Vitamin C, Thiamine, and Hydrocortisone Combination for Patients With Sepsis
    Andre C. Kalil, MD, MPH1

    "The use of vitamin C for treatment of patients with sepsis has generated substantial interest and controversy. In 2017, a single-center observational study suggested that the combination of high-dose vitamin C, thiamine, and hydrocortisone in conjunction with usual care was associated with reduced mortality (8.5% for combination treatment vs 40.4% for control).1 Despite the small sample size (94 patients), lack of concurrent controls and randomization, and important baseline imbalances between study groups, the study garnered significant attention. There were reports that some physicians were keen to adopt the strategy as part of routine practice, even though this approach had not been tested in a rigorous clinical trial."
    [I don't have access to the full article...apologies...]

    -----

    So did the protocol for septic shock fail - (vitamin C 1.5 g q 6 IV; hydrocortisone 50 mg q 6 IV; thiamine [vitamin B1]; 200 mg q 12 IV)? Or did the study design fail?

    Here's the full session in which results from the study were presented and beginning at minute 47:42 Dr. Paul E. Marik was given 15 minutes to respond to the study results...


    The posts in the comments section below the video are of interest too.

    -----

    I became aware of this protocol after listening to a recent online episode of "Jimmy Rants" - (432: Why are effective natural remedies for #COVID19 #coronavirus being rejected?) - by American author and blogger Jimmy Moore (LLVLC.com) earlier this week.

    A friend of his, Keith Berkowitz, MD in New York City stumbled upon Dr. Marik's protocol while searching for information on potential treatments for COVID-19 and was so impressed he immediately began promoting the protocol to doctors around the country, then asked Jimmy for his help in getting the information out to the public.

    Links...

    https://jimmyrants.com/why-are-effective-natural-remedies-for-covid19-coronavirus-being-rejected/ (Protocol specifically discussed beginning around minute 20:00)

    https://jimmyrants.com/bonus-are-we...irus-not-enough-on-the-inflammation-response/ (Brief episode with Dr. Berkowitz in which the protocol is discussed as well as a summary of patient results from doctors around the country)

    https://livinlavidalowcarb.com/keto...an-underused-but-effective-covid-19-protocol/ Jimmy and Dr. Will Cole talk further with Dr. Berkowitz about the protocol and patient results.

    -----

    I've spent days digging around for information on this septic shock/COVID-19 protocol. Hope you find it as helpful as my husband and I have. Given the shortage of ventilators, this protocol has the potential to save lives, but it needs to be initiated at the hospital within 6 hours of sepsis symptoms for best results, no more than 12 hours.
     
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    #1308 Winnie53, Apr 5, 2020 at 1:44 AM
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  9. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Found these 2 diagrams on Twitter and thought them interesting. Don’t think the ‘places’ are mutually exclusive.

    F61C7E2F-40F0-412F-AE7E-9B4A36CAEBD1.jpeg 4310B0A1-9AF4-482B-BC2E-79553D69D679.jpeg
     
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  10. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Winnie - I appreciate your intentions are good, but I have to say, I'd be astonished if the medics treating seriously ill COVID patients (and let's face it, every patient in hospital will be seriously ill) would have the time to read it, never mind elect to deflect from their clearly defined treatment protocols.

    People going for their diabetes reviews, taking documents with them (to a booked, standard appointment) often find documents and details brushed off without the insane challenges in hospitals at the moment.

    Actually, I can't even think how you a person would actually get the document physically or electronically in there. I can't think A&E or ICU will be taking casual email traffic right now.
     
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  11. Khova91

    Khova91 · Member

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    Hi

    My names Kieran and I'm new here, I just recently got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes (less than a year ago) I also suffer from severe anxiety so as you can imagine I'm mentally not in the best shape currently during this crisis. I just want to know if theres any more infomation regarding the risk factor, I'm young (28) despite being type 2 I'm not obese (although I could afford to lose a few pounds) I don't suffer any complications that come with diabetes just yet, any that I've noticed anyway. I don't smoke, I exercise frequently and my blood pressure last time I got tested was even in the non diabetic range...so am I still really at that much more risk at getting severely ill or worse? Any infomation would be most appreciated.
     
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  12. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @Khova91 and welcome

    The short answer is that risk is very personal and seems to depend on blood sugar control rather (and any other underlying conditions) rather than simply being as a result of a type 2 diagnosis. You mentioned being at non-diabetic levels and that is definitely positive. There are a couple of other threads about this:

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/is-type-2-coronavirus-low-risk.173313/ (See post 10 in particular)
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/type-2-and-shielding-letter.173338/page-2

    And this government guidance is also very useful for identifying your own risk level and what measures to take to stay safe:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others
     
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  13. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I would say you probably aren't at any greater risk than most of the population as long as your BGs stay good. However it's a lottery. There are older people with comorbidities coming through it and healthy young people who sadly die. All any of us can do is try to minimise the risk of contracting it in the first place.

    Hoping you stay well:)
     
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  14. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Stay home and stay out of hospital. The odds of survival on a ventilator, let alone being assigned a ventilator around the virus peak, are not good.

    Why do we still have a situation where hospital staff, care workers and gp surgeries can't get all the protective equipment they need and those in the know who are responsible continue to obfuscate.

    They will not even marshall the resources in the country to their aid, even ignoring offers of help and leaving them unanswered.

    The Welsh health guy in charge was on this am on bbcR4, he was not very confidence inspiring and avoided answering direct questions.
    D.
     
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  15. Khova91

    Khova91 · Member

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    Thanks guys.

    Like I said my anxiety doesn't help in times like this, I actually thought I was coming down with cov19 the other day because I couldn't breathe but turns it out it was just a small panic attack.

    Yes so far my blood levels are good and in the "normal" range, I am on 4 500g metaformin tablets a day, I was meant to get another blood test next week but it got cancelled due to the outbreak.
     
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  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Have you got your own blood glucose meter? If not it would be a good idea to buy one. That way you can keep an eye on your glucose levels without waiting for the HbA1c test, and you can also use it to test out the foods you are eating to make sure they are suitable for you.
     
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  17. Khova91

    Khova91 · Member

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    No I don't own one, I wouldn't know where to get a reliable one or where to begin really.

    Since I'm still in the somewhat early stages nobodys really spoken to me about these things, just put me on metaformin and was going to see if that made a difference, but I'll look into it thanks.
     
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  18. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    @Rachox will be able to help you with some ideas for the meters many of use use on here. Hopefully she will be along shortly.

    If you self test immediately before you eat, and then again 2 hours (and also even at 1 hour and 3 hours) after your first bite, you will see immediately what that meal has done to your levels, giving you the opportunity to amend the contents. The main culprits will be the carbohydrates. Fats do not raise blood sugar levels, and protein will only do so in certain circumstances. If you decide to buy a meter, and I strongly advise you to do so, we can help with what to look out for and how to use it to your best advantage.
     
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  19. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Thanks for the tag @Bluetit1802


    Here’s some info on UK meters, and to be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned. For a meter with cheap strips go for the Tee2 + found here:

    http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-plus-blood-glucose-meter/ with the strips found here:

    http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-testing-strips/

    Some members have got a free Tee2+ by phoning up to order, with a large order of strips they often throw the meter in for free:

    Phone number 0800 8815423

    With more expensive strips is their Caresens Dual which I currently use, this one has the advantage of glucose and ketone testing in one machine, it’s to be found here:

    https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/caresens-dual



    Home Health have recently bought out this one, but I haven’t heard any reviews yet, links to strips and the meter:

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/glucose-navii-blood-glucose-test-strips-50-strip-pack/

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/gluconavii-blood-sugar-meter-glucose-monitor-starter-kit/

    And to be totally transparent I used to use the SD Code Free from Home Health which has the cheapest strips available if bought in quantities of 5 or 10 pots with the codes below. However I found it to be becoming less and less reliable. Here it is for anyone wanting to give it a go, just bear in mind it seems they are replacing it with the Navii, details above.

    http://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/blood-glucose-monitor/

    and here for the extra strips

    http://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

    There are discount codes if you buy in bulk.

    5 packs 264086

    10 packs 975833


    Don’t forget to check the box if you have pre diabetes or diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)
     
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  20. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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